Sheds.

[burgundyben]

To replace Playtime I am very much up for a project boat.

I've talked to 2 owners in the last week or so or boats which both require a huge rebuild. Structural, mechanical, cosmetic, the whole hog.

I would pay £3k for one and £5k for the other, which would allow me to do the job without loosing my shirt.

Both owners want £20k.

How do I start that conversation?

 

[longjohnsilver]

With difficulty, I suspect it will be a very short conversation!!

 

[epervier]

Once upon a time there were two owners of a couple of ugly ducklings, that thought they were swans and asked Monarchy money for them believing they were still the property of the Queen.......................................

don't bother.

 

[superheat6k]

Establish the best ever price the boat would make when presented in very good finished condition. Then assess the tasks that need to be done assuming a goodly proportion of these were professionally tackled. Allow for necessary inventory a decently presented boat would include. Add 25 & 50% to this for the unknowns.

Deduct these from the best ever value.

Realistic offer price will fall somewhere in between these two figures. Do not place this as an offer, just simply explain the basis of your assessed value as being where you would consider placing an offer. Let them know you are not in a hurry, so when there next major expense of just keeping the boat arises they will be able to start focusing. For some this reality may already be dawning, they just hope some mug will show up.

Alternatively just give them the list of tasks and associated costs and let them assess the residual value themselves.

I know some on here do not agree with this approach, but these are not boats just away from the boat show, and in most cases the owners have allowed their boats to degrade significantly, often for perfectly good personal reasons. You are not obliged to compensate them for their personal situation, you just want to a buy a boat at a fair price for you.

For me all the boats I viewed recently, including the one I bought, were suffering to some extent from Old Man Syndrome. The offer prices I assessed were between 35 - 60% of AP. For a boat around £20k then it would not surprise me if the Offer price zone calculated were a negative. Clearly if it has a worth to you, even in this state no one is going to give you the boat, but I am sure you know not to underestimate how much repair works could cost. Your own labour is only free to you.

There is one Huntsman laying in Foulkes like that presently. A box of matches would likely be the sellers most cost effective option, which is a real shame, but I expect it will be ashore for many many months if not years. Another at Foulkes restored to the the theoretical 'best ever; condition spends more time ashore under going yet more repairs than it ever does afloat.

Having said that we were moored next to a 1965 Spearfish (GRP) on Saturday that was truly immaculate and a credit to its owner / restorer. You wouldn't get that one for £3 - 5k, probably more than £50k.

 

[vas]

theory of shock probably wont be accepted by owner.
explaining what sh6 says above which I'm sure you can do in a substantiated manner wont go down well.
Maybe add the argument that you're helping them minimize their costs (mooring, I doubt any of the boats you're checking in actually in the water) or boatyard ones (most likely) so explain that by paying you 5K to get it off their hands will payback in the longterm as in 4yrs time they'll still have them for sale and they'll already have spent that amount on boatyard fees
Leave your details with them and quietly go. I'd guess a 10pc chance that they'll call you by xmass. Do that with 10 sorry looking Faireys and you'll have a nice shed to work on by Easter I recon

good luck, and please can I ask for a more detailed rebuilt thread once you are under way?

V.

 

[BruceK]

The value of a second hand vehicle or vessel is never it's cost minus the repairs required to restore it to factory release. I restore cars and motorcycles to factory condition as a hobby. You will always lose your shirt or pay twice in resto fees what it cost new. Just because you are on a mission doesn't mean the seller is. I think you might need to realise that expectation before embarking on that conversation tbh.

 

[petem]

Trevor, s a buyer, your logic makes perfect sense to me. If I was a seller, it wouldn't.

 

[Vitesse]

If it was old cars with rust and mechanical issues I wonder if there would be the same rose tinted view?

I might be talking to the wives of these chaps.

 

[benjenbav]

How do I start that conversation?

How about:

"£2k for your shed."

The range of answers will likely be:

"Take the pit of pain."

"Maybe we can talk"

"Cease and desist"

 

[ian38_39]

It has been said on here before that, from the view point of most on the forum, a boat must be in perfect condition.
WHY?
As long as it is mechanically and structurally sound then it can be used and for many people that is exactly what they want. Not a show home but a boat to be enjoyed by the family without the need to hoover every crumb the kids drop the second it hits the floor.
A boat has a value as soon as it is sound, even if it needs twice what it would cost new spending on it to make it perfect.

 

[Freebee]

It has been said on here before that, from the view point of most on the forum, a boat must be in perfect condition.
WHY?
As long as it is mechanically and structurally sound then it can be used and for many people that is exactly what they want. Not a show home but a boat to be enjoyed by the family without the need to hoover every crumb the kids drop the second it hits the floor.
A boat has a value as soon as it is sound, even if it needs twice what it would cost new spending on it to make it perfect.

how does that answer the original posters question "how to start the conversation where you are going to make an offer well lower than the asking price?

 

[julians]

To replace Playtime I am very much up for a project boat.

I've talked to 2 owners in the last week or so or boats which both require a huge rebuild. Structural, mechanical, cosmetic, the whole hog.

I would pay £3k for one and £5k for the other, which would allow me to do the job without loosing my shirt.

Both owners want £20k.

How do I start that conversation?

How about:-

1. Are you open to offers? If answer =no then walk away.
2. If answer is yes then put your offer in.

Cant see you getting those examples for what you think theyre worth though. Too much difference between asking price and offer price.

 

[ian38_39]

My reply was more to do with perceived value in other answers.

I have often made offers based on what something is worth to me and have always started by asking whether the price is open to negotiation, before giving a brief explanation of what I want to pay and why, certainly never a detailed breakdown, for me it works better than questioning the actual value the owner places on it. Leave the offer with them and leave it friendly.
If lucky the seller will have a think, and if it is the right time to accept an offer come back, if not you keep looking and give them another call in 2 months. They all sell eventually and 90% of the time because they eventually accept an offer based on what someone will pay instead of what they think it is worth.

 

[Tranona]

It has been said on here before that, from the view point of most on the forum, a boat must be in perfect condition.
WHY?
As long as it is mechanically and structurally sound then it can be used and for many people that is exactly what they want. Not a show home but a boat to be enjoyed by the family without the need to hoover every crumb the kids drop the second it hits the floor.
A boat has a value as soon as it is sound, even if it needs twice what it would cost new spending on it to make it perfect.

There is a lot of truth in that, but with the type of boat the OP is looking at, just keeping it in usable condition is enormously expensive - probably the reason why the current owners have allowed them to get into a state where they are not worth anything.

 

[Seastoke]

the value of a second hand vehicle or vessel is never it's cost minus the repairs required to restore it to factory release. I restore cars and motorcycles to factory condition as a hobby. You will always lose your shirt or pay twice in resto fees what it cost new. Just because you are on a mission doesn't mean the seller is. I think you might need to realise that expectation before embarking on that conversation tbh.

bruce austin allegro is not a real car

 

[superheat6k]

Trevor, s a buyer, your logic makes perfect sense to me. If I was a seller, it wouldn't.

If the boat is presented in fair to good condition then my method will still fairly work to calculate the value close to the proper market price, which one would expect would be close to the AP, possibly even above it, although I can't see anyone offering above AP in the current market. The thing is here the type of boat Ben refers to is a 'Shed'. Mine was a 'Garage', with some crap on the floor and a leaky roof (colloquially speaking).

I utterly fail to understand why anyone selling expects those buying to be wearing rose tinted specs, when often enough they are wearing blinkers as to their boat's actual condition. There is no need to offend sellers by simply being frank. Often enough they know what their boats might really be worth, they just have difficulty accepting the reality. Worse that can happen is they tell you to go away or simply ignore you.

 

[PCUK]

When I bought my current project the owner was hugely in debt to the marina. I paid over the odds for the boat as I wanted it but still a fraction of what the owner wanted as the marina pressurised him and he eventually saw that I was his last chance at any sort of good outcome. Boat was far worse than he thought with major structural faults. Not major for me though so I got the boat I wanted and he got some help with his back mooring bill. Moral, talk to the yard, marina about the boats you fancy!

 

[Dick Atcherley]

Going back to the OP, I think that there are simply some negotiations where you have to preface any further conversation with something along the lines of "whilst I really love your boat and want to return her to great condition, the reality is that the difference between what you are asking and what I can offer given the cost of the work is so great, it's difficult to know where to start."

The conversation will then go one of three ways;

1. "Nice to meet you, now bugger off"
2. "Why do you say that?" (at which point you can set out why you say that and that may or may not be met with a reasonable response)
3. "What have you got in mind?"

The response you don't want is the "I've never been so insulted in all my life", but occasionally there is no talking to some folks.

 

[burgundyben]

When I bought my current project the owner was hugely in debt to the marina. I paid over the odds for the boat as I wanted it but still a fraction of what the owner wanted as the marina pressurised him and he eventually saw that I was his last chance at any sort of good outcome. Boat was far worse than he thought with major structural faults. Not major for me though so I got the boat I wanted and he got some help with his back mooring bill. Moral, talk to the yard, marina about the boats you fancy!

Interesting. There is a third shed, chap is behind with fees, I offered to take the boat for nothing and clear the fees. It encouraged him to pay the fees. But he still left a wooden boat outside uncovered.