She won't Point

[WayneS]

She won\'t Point

Just done my first cruiser race with the club from Lymington back to Portsmouth. What fun.

Most of the race was off the wind where we did far better than average. However, on the beats we were pathetic.

I found that my sails were starting to luff with me still being around 5deg below the others. This was with the mainsheet cranked to windward on the track and the genoa hard in. The sail set looked the same as others. I found that our speed through the water was similar to the others, just the pointing angle was bad.

Sure, I know that all boats are different, some point better than others etc but surely there is something that we can do.

My mast is very stiff so I think that tensioning the backstay would not induce bend. Should I just try to add some more rake? When we stepped the mast for the first time earlier this year, I did notice that the back of the foot looked compressed, almost as if it had a fair amount of rake before.

Any simple suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[extravert]

Re: She won\'t Point

This is very boat dependant, you may just have a boat that won't point as well as others, but I have some other suggestions that I've found from my racing...

How old are your sails? Upwind is when old sails will let you down.

Races are often won or lost on the upwind sections. They are a lot harder to get right than reaching or downwind. Maybe the competitors have been racing a long while and have plenty of practice.

Maintaining pointing angle requires constant attention from the helm. Every slight distraction where you look away is a likely luff or loss of pointing.

Were you keeping the boat angle of heel within a sensible range? Go much over 20 degrees of heel, and you will loose speed and start going sideways. Were the other boats keeping themselves this level? Experiment to find your optimum maximum angle.

On some boats it is impossible to stop the main backwinding slightly along its luff when the headsail is drawing correctly, especially with an old main. This is apparent on mine (an X99) when using the genoa. Its the luff of the headsail and the leech of the mainsail that do all the work when beating, which is where you find the telltails. A slightly backwinding main just behind the mast cannot always be avoided, keep an eye on the leech telltails of the main and the luff telltails of the headsail.

In order to keep the angle of heel within the range for your boat when going upwind on a gusty day, some people trim the main and othes pinch. Trimming the main will keep you on a steady angle of heel and to the wind, but requires a main trimmer with strong arms. Pinching achieves the same effect by luffing slightly in the gusts, and can be a good way to claw yourself slightly more upwind than the opposition, but you have to have a good helm, because it's very sensitive, and a degree or two too far upwind and you'll lose it completely. You can see other boats doing it to great effect sometimes, they keep their boat on an even angle through all the gusts without trimming their main, and just seem to drift upwind compared to yourselves.

 

[Guest]

Re: She won\'t Point

To add to extraverts excellent suggestions, just a couple of extra points. Whilst you can get away with an older mainsail, a headsail that is, shall we say past its prime will kill any windward performance. You also mention that when going to windward you have the headsail cranked in hard. There are times when this will actually kill a boat dead in the water, try cracking the sheets off an inch or so, and you may well have the answer!

 

[billmacfarlane]

Re: She won\'t Point

Sailing to windward is an art and rather than one thing making a big difference it's usually a lot of little things all put together that makes a difference to the windward performance of your boat. We're talking about things that will get the boat performing to its optimum , the performance dependant on the type of boat.
Firstly , one of the main things that transform the windward performance of a boat is the state of the sails. Are your sails newish or old ? They might be stretched , and while you can get them recut , it's only a short term solution.
Secondly if your boat is a cruiser the placement of the genoa tracks might have been done more for the convenience of cruising rather than for the optimimum sheeting angle.
Thirdly what's the state of your standing rigging ? When your sailing to windward is it slack on the leeward side ?It might need adjusting. Incorrectly adjusted standing rigging will affect the trim of the mainsail and ultimately the windward performance of your boat . I noticed you said you crank up the mainsail . Don't trim the main so that the boom is past the centre line of the boat. As a general rule of thumb , when sailing to windward in light airs the boom should on the boat's centreline and as the wind increases the boom should be trimmed so that it's dropped to leeward so that wind is spilled from it to the point where you need to put in a reef. I noticed you said your mast is stiff so I guess you're masthead rigged ?
Lastly , when helming a boat to windward there's an awful lot of sheer nous involved. As Extravert said there are techniques involved that can improve a boat's track to windward such as noticing the windshifts in gusts and pinching the boat to take advantage of them.

 

[WayneS]

Re: She won\'t Point

This is all very good information, thanks a lot.

I can confirm that my Genoa is very old.

When I bought the boat she was equipped with hank-on sails (A very very nice tri genoa) but we had to dump it as we fitted a roller and the thing was too big. I bought a second hand roller genoa. I cannot afford to replace it so we will have to live with that for now.

The main is a full battened sail in quite good nick.

My main set of foresail tracks are on the outside of the guardrails but I have a second set some way inboard of these on the deck itself. I can only assume that they were of the smaller hank-on sails. Could I sheet the roller Genoa to these when I am going upwind?

None commented on my idea of putting a bit more rake on the mast, should I bother with this?

BTW, I am not trying to make my cruiser into a racer. I just want to get the most out of her.

Thanks again for the help so far.

 

[bedouin]

Re: She won\'t Point

Your original post was about pointing angle - things such as mast rake and forestay tension have only a minor impact on that. Sheeting position is by far the most critical factor, and in general moving the sheeting position inboard should enable you to point higher.

If you haven't already done so you should fit telltails to the luff of the genoa, they are by far the easiest way to trim a genoa

 

[billmacfarlane]

Re: She won\'t Point

You could possibly do use the inner genoa track for sheeting it in . Is the track far enough back to take the whole genoa ? If not you can still use it with the sail partly rolled. In the past I've done this by having 2 jib sheets on each side , one inside the stays and one outside. But beware as someone has already said of oversheeting. Fit some telltales and use them to check the airflow over the sail.

 

[graham]

Re: She won\'t Point

Mast rake will affect the helm.Rake the mast further aft will increase weather helm ,too much weatherhelm causes your rudder to act like a break so has to be avoided.

What is your boat? Some boats dont point very high whatever you do.Cranking your main up to windward may not help.You have to experiment.

On my boat you actually get to windward quicker by easing the main slightly and increasing the boatspeed by not attempting to point too high.This also reduces the leaway.Its no use pointing 5 degrees higher if you end up doing a knot less speed and more leeway.

Try letting the boat sail a bit more free and keep the speed up.Hopefully you will do better then.

The good thing about racing is it definitely sharpens up your skills .Lots of cruising skippers sail their boats badly despite years of experience.

If above does not improve the situation then try experimenting with mast rake. Only make one adjustment at a time or you wont know what has made the improvement.

 

[david_e]

Re: She won\'t Point

I suspect that the biggest problem could be in your roller genoa, if it flexes when driving to windward, then even though you could be helming well and have evrything else set well, you will lose against other boats. See if it can be adjusted at all, changing your track (as you indicate) might help in getting some tension in it.

 

[yoda]

Re: She won\'t Point

It may be worth getting a sailmaker to look at your hank on genoa to see if it can be cut to fit your roller gear. While this will make it slightly smaller if it has a better shape you may be better off. Do experiment but don't be surprised if you still find ou don't point as high as others. I don't and you just get used to sailing a different way, and not trying to match others boat for boat on the beats.

Yoda

 

[vyv_cox]

Re: She won\'t Point

Buying a new suit of sails improved the pointing of my boat by an amazing amount. Although the old genoa was not very old, it had been blown out by a prevoius owner who had an aversion to furling and carried full sail in winds of far to much strength.

Your best option, apart from putting your hand in your pocket, is not to pinch by trying to point with the others, but to use the extra power you get from bearing away a bit. It probably won't win you any races but will be more enjoyable.

 

[bedouin]

Re: She won\'t Point

Did changing the sail actually improve your pointing angle, or just the speed you could get when hard on the wind?

 

[vyv_cox]

Re: She won\'t Point

Definitely points higher. Whereas we used to point with the Hawk just outside the reference points we now point with it just inside. Maybe 5 degrees apparent.

 

[Guest]

Re: She won\'t Point

I always found it very difficult to get enough halyard tension with furling headsails. The forestay always tends to sag away. The best way to solve this is to tighten the backstay as hard as possible.

 

[Guest]

Re: She won\'t Point

I always found it very difficult to get enough halyard tension with furling headsails. The forestay always tends to sag away. The best way to solve this is to tighten the backstay as hard as possible.

 

[bedouin]

Re: She won\'t Point

My rolling Genoa is designed to 'sag' a bit. I use the backstay tension (rather than halyard tension) to control the sag and hence the amount of depth in the sail.