Share a sunsail yacht partnership scheme

[Foxy]

Some really good advice above esp SeamanStaines et al including the fact that most people seem very happy.
There are risks involved, but the advice above seems a really good way to minimise them.

 

[twentythirty]

Thank you all for your continued helpful comments particularly SeamanStaines and Tranona. I am fairly well set on doing this. My focus remains on the cat384 if I can find the right person for a 50/50 split. Alternatively may do the 36' monohull solo. Don't suppose I'll be short of crew to join me eitherway.
Anymore comments?
HNY.
Julian

 

[BlueSkyNick]

There must be people who are unhappy with their experiences of these contracts as they are not for everyone and sometimes circumstances change. Perhaps the unhappy people don't use the forum!

Or maybe the unhappy people prefer not to hang out their dirty washing in public ! I know of one person who bought his way out of the contract very quickly in the first year (UK based boat).

I was once told that buying a boat for chartering has to be done for financial advantage only - if you want to a boat to treat as your pride and joy, to love and cherish, to treat as a second home, don't charter it.

I recognise that 20/30 is very keen, as well as astute and will probably be fine. If it were me, I would want to understand Sunsail's side of the bargain - any deal has to be a win/win for it to work properly. They must be making a gain out of other people helping to buy boats for them - presumably it is just cashflow in terms of avoided investment.

 

[Ubergeekian]

I was once told that buying a boat for chartering has to be done for financial advantage only - if you want to a boat to treat as your pride and joy, to love and cherish, to treat as a second home, don't charter it.

I was wondering about that. To me the fun of owning instead of chartering - which almost always makes more financial sense - is the personalisation. Adjusting and modifying the boat to be just rigfht for me, keeping my books, clothes and diversions on board and so on.

Or am I missing the point, and this scheme is really a way of buying your own boat five years in the future with cheap chartering in the meantime?

 

[SeamanStaines]

I recognise that 20/30 is very keen, as well as astute and will probably be fine. If it were me, I would want to understand Sunsail's side of the bargain - any deal has to be a win/win for it to work properly. They must be making a gain out of other people helping to buy boats for them - presumably it is just cashflow in terms of avoided investment.

There are a number of things that make this a good business model for Sunsail, effectively though, because of the discount they get on a new yacht which they do not pass on they get a significant income boost at the beginning of the contract. The actual cost to them of the owner time is negligible since they recover their turn around costs on the actual week and most bases seldom have full utilisation. In the case of Moorings I think they used to actually make a profit on the owner turnaround as opposed to just covering the costs. A further huge benefit to Sunsail is that they don’t have any responsibility to dispose of the yacht at the end of the contract, that is down to the owner. Moorings used to make good money here as well in offering a brokerage service which gave them another 10-15% out of the deal.

Something else that I remembered (although this may have changed). The main reason I went for a Moorings deal, rather than Sunsail at the time was that Sunsail used to write into their contracts a provision for them to move the yachts to a different base for the 'off' season. They used to do this from the Mallorca base where all of the yachts where moved to the BVI on a ship for the winter. Clearly, this is disadvantageous to an owner since it significantly increases the utilisation and greatly reduces the amount of time available for maintenance. It would be worth checking that the contract now ensures the boats are actually laid up for a significant time over the winter.

 

[twentythirty]

Ah! another good point SeamanStaines. Must raise that question. Not one I'd thought of! You also put forward all the pluses for Sunsail.
A further plus for them is that they "capture" a customer at least for the next 5 yrs. OK they are not going to make any more money out of him/her during the period, but he will bring friends onto his boat and into the SS orbit and they will be considered potential further customers. I think that quite a few on this scheme run it on 5yr to 5yr too.
The win-win required is that SS "give away" some free weeks which cost them less than the sticker price by the amount of their profit margin, and the punter gets weeks that are "worth" the sticker price to him.
There is also a guaranteed trade in value for those who wish to hand their boat back after the 5 yrs and not continue the scheme. This is to reassure that some money will be available if circumstances have changed after 5 yrs. I think the figure is (say) around 43%. So the 5 yrs would have cost you 20% (say £20K on a £100K monohull) plus loss of any (low) interest if you had the cash or 5yrs of higher interest if borrowing the money. Again not too bad a deal as £20K for a potential 5yrs x 12 weeks (or say 9 weeks at a mix of high/low periods at average £2K/week) is "worth" a potential £90K (!, have I done the sums right here? Seems a very good deal!).
Am even more minded toward it if these figures are right!
But again it only works if you can use the "return" of the free weeks and at the moment I can only use about half of what's available. But a 5yr plan works well for me for retirement planning.
Best regards to all.
Julian

 

[Tranona]

Or maybe the unhappy people prefer not to hang out their dirty washing in public ! I know of one person who bought his way out of the contract very quickly in the first year (UK based boat).

I was once told that buying a boat for chartering has to be done for financial advantage only - if you want to a boat to treat as your pride and joy, to love and cherish, to treat as a second home, don't charter it.

I recognise that 20/30 is very keen, as well as astute and will probably be fine. If it were me, I would want to understand Sunsail's side of the bargain - any deal has to be a win/win for it to work properly. They must be making a gain out of other people helping to buy boats for them - presumably it is just cashflow in terms of avoided investment.

Charter management arrangements in the UK are nowhere near as attractive as in the Med or further afield. The unpredictable weather to my mind reduces the usage value as the prime objective is to "sell" as many weeks as possible. The boats get more of a hammering as they go out in all weathers, often with large crews, bashing down below in wet foulies with harnesses swinging and clouting woodwork etc. Operating costs are high - paying £8k for a marina berth that is not used 40% of the time is tough.

On the other hand, in the Med the boats are more like floating holiday homes where people live outside, rarely cook on board and rarely get wet. The things that get a hard time are electrics, pumps and fridges!

The origin of the ownership schemes dates back nearly 30 years when the French govt introduced a scheme to develop tourism in developing countries. Part of this was to offer 100% tax allowances in the first year for owners of charter boats - provided they were French of course! This legislation was the foundation of the mass production French boatbuilding industry. Even though it was eventually banned by the EU, the principle survives and has enabled operators to expand their fleets without using their own capital.

The standard 5year/6 season contract is still popular but there are many variations to suit individual investor needs and operator flexibility. While there is obviously a loss of the "pride and joy" bit, if it suits your circumstances that is more than offset by having economical access to a boat you could not justify otherwise.

 

[SeamanStaines]

But again it only works if you can use the "return" of the free weeks and at the moment I can only use about half of what's available. But a 5yr plan works well for me for retirement planning.
Best regards to all.
Julian

Moorings used to permit me to sell my unused weeks since they did not insist I had to be on the 'owner weeks'. I did that occasionally, selling them easily for around 50% of the Moorings price. An advert in the local yacht clubs usually produced a clutch of prospects. That certainly used to offset some of the costs.

 

[Doug_Stormforce]

What you get is important

I don't think it really matters what Sunsail get out of this, you can assume they will have put together a package that works for them. Who cares what discount they get on a boat. You can't get it as you don't bulk buy yachts. But you can get what they are offering you.

All you need to consider is if it works for you.

 

[David_Jersey]

All you need to consider is if it works for you.

I agree - but always nice / interesting to understand what the other b#gger is getting out of a deal

Of no interest to me, but if circumstances were different (wife and a couple off kids / other freinds & family who like a group holiday and happy to have the same style holiday and commitment each year) I would definately consider.........a big attraction not yet mentioned for a yacht abroad is you are also getting 24/7 yacht management and maintanence. Not to say you can't do or arrange this yourself but you would nonetheless still have some sort of greater aggro factor, and in my eyes also a big plus that Sunsail have a commercial self interest in doing so properly. Of course none of that is for free - and value of that will vary to each person.

Given the length of time the business model has operated I think fair to say it works sufficiently well for many - just not designed to work for all, nor as a purely commercial deal for the punter in straight £££ terms.

 

[Sailfree]

The strangest thing of all is that there is never a string of replies from peed off and disgruntled former participants in the scheme. The lack of this queue of unhappy actual users speaks volumes!

People are hardly likely to complain that the boat was finally **** when all they now really want to do is sell it on!

 

[fitsu]

sunsail

Seems Sunsail get pretty good press on this thread - We (a syndicate of 3-4 familes) are now on our 5th boat - having started with them in 1992 in Corsica - moving on to three new boat-cycles in the Seychelles and now have a boat (somewhere) in Greece. We have seen and sailed in locations that we could only have dreamt to get to - had generally excellent service from base staff and boats have always been in good nick. As the company has grown from a smaller personal structure in the 90's to a more corporate these days barriers and useage access has changed - gone are the local upgrades on arrival and overnight for the last night as a charterer on the boat - but we can speak highly of the experience and service we have had. We bought in to go cruising in the Med but these days we view our investment as a "to go on holiday option".
Our trade in experience has been professionally handled and I am sure that Sunsail are in pocket at boat trade in time we have never felt short changed.
May this relationship continue.....