Shafts v Drives

Having had both, I think twin shafts are better for berthing. I think the difference between shafts and outdrives is less if the shafts are in tunnels. You get a lot less side-ways/prop-wash effect. This is really noticeable say between v40 (no tunnels) and camargue 44 (tunnels) - IMHO.
 
Agree with you 100%, hlb. Tying up the stern first seems almost wilfully idiotic 'coz no bow thruster I've ever had is strong enough to move the bow against a strong wind or tide so there's always a danger that you lose the bow
As you say, whats so difficult about driving bows first onto a pontoon and dropping a bow line over a cleat. Nobody has to jump off and if the crew misses you just have another go. Once the bow line is on, then you can do anyting with the stern. Again as you say, you can use a bow spring to lever yourself off a pontoon. All so easy with a bit of practice
 
Theres a sort of joy in driving Debs barge. 50ft and 18 tons, small single engine, a bow thruster, but about as much use as chocolate fir guard. You have to get everything right, first time. Except you cant cos boat is much longer than canal is wide. Also very slow. So turning into windward is not an option. Neither is, zooming in quick and stopping dead. It aint going to happen. So again, the only time there any control is if theres a bolard to hook a rope round whilst passing, usually a bit of 3x3 stoop to hook round center cleat and hope the stoop dont break. Most times there is nothing at all. Some how you have to get barge to tow path, only one side. Mostly it's not deap enough there. No depth sounder. But would not help, as carreering over 2ft6/3ft depth all the time. Lassooing cleats, not an option, as every where has rings. Or you have to hammer stakes into ground and tie to them, whilst holding on to 18 tons!!

Nah. The sea and twin scews, much easier. But would never want a boat bigger than 40ft. Nowt to do with money. Gets hard to handle with two, wont fit into many places. Crew on board!! ugg. no way. Might as well buy a house. A boats for cruising about, smaller than say 50 ft bigger than 30ft. 35-40ft about right. Handle most weathers. Fit into most places.

50ft, far to big in UK maybe ok some place, but with added crew.

Hell. Debs thinks my P35 to big and she's got a 49ft barge.!!

50ft ok if wanting a heard of folk with you all the time. I dont want a herd of folk all the time. Does any one else!! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Dont need a rope with twins. But Ive got pissed off more than once by folk saying that there going out forwards from alongside. Bow thruster or not. Sticking arse end in to you with all the crew on both boats trying to hold it off.Specially in some where like St Peters Port where they might have to get bows passed two boats moored in front. Totally pisses me off.

The bow is round, the back is square. Roll the boat round on a fender on the bows and back out.

No BT needed and would just cock the job up if used.

Once watched a bloke leave Falmouth town marina. Big wind blowing on to it. AS it happened there were no other boats moored in front. So he used the whole 100yds?? of pontoon to pick up speed and launch himself off it. Whilst unsuspecting daughter?? tried to reinsert fenders at 20 knots!! At the risk of loosing arm.

There is only one system on my boat. Bows in for mooring. Arse out for leaving. Dont confuse the crew!!
 
Don't disagree with you there but the point is you know what you are doing and are skilled in handling your own boat and even if were a new boat you have years of experience. What I am saying is that for a new person to boating or someone that has'nt moved their skill level up it is easier to get your bum on first and get someone to step off any take the lines, gives you more options so to speak. The stern is always going to be the more grippy part of the boat in the water and you have more control over the direction it takes.

Not all med berths have a bouy to pick up many have the for'd line sunk and you have to berth stern too all the way in, pick up the stern lines first and then boat hook the for'd line off the toon and carry for'd and make fast.

Member my first med berthing episode got me bum in then went into panic cus could'nt find the for'd line all the time the wind kept pushing me back up against the pontoon so had to put stern line on leave one engine ahead dash to the stern again find the for'd line dash up pointy bit and tie off. Med berthing is definitely not single handed stuff!, really pushes your skill level up as many berths are only just as wide as your boat maybe 6" either side if lucky.
 
Hmm. I wrote reams. Then screen went dead. Cant comment on duff marina berths. Never seen a fishing boat or container ship try to get in one. Try to fit your car into some Tesco parking lots. You cant open the doors and get out. So a bit pointless parking there. So dont. Find a bigger one.

Maybe you got your berth. Cos the " experts" did not want it!??
 
Or maybe I got it right next to all the services because all the 'experts' could'nt get into it and had to get one the size of a footbal pitch cus they can't berth stern too without dinking everything!.

Most of the ferries and seacats all berth stern too, not much point in berthing bows in to the linkspan if the vehicle ramps are at tother end! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
I'm just pointing out, that alot of marina berths are badly designed and probably built when average boats were much smaller. Ferry berths are designed for the job and they dont try to cram as many in as possible.

Modern mobo's are designed for med type stern on moorings.
Uk marinas have short finger berths mostly, with nothing to tie the bows to in many cases. So not fit for perpose!
 
kept out as I only have a single OD but I have to agree with hlb for a coupe of additional reasons -=

1. It's as important to have a fall back/well practiced routine as it is to be competent to some degree with a number of alternative solutions. Bows in/stern out works better in a wider range of circumstances.
2. Reversing an OD boats into any pontoon area, especially unknown ones, can be a bit of a problem! I don't think I am alone in having a prop extend beyond the back of my boat and there are chains, ropes, hanging bits of rubber etc dangling down from the sides of many pontoons - these don't mix; especially when the props are going round! The (your) bow is a known quanity, above the pontoon is visible and the two should be able to live in harmony even if you don't get it quite right!

These just add to the reasons already outlined by hlb; which in themselves are enough for me.
 
Very true, thats the big problem when trying to berth bow in on something 45' + in uk marinas the fingers often are'nt long enough to then get the stern on so you end up trying to jump off over the rails midships usually with a big thud as you hit the pontoon, then you can't get back on again. Your only option is stern too so you might as well get into the swing of it from the begining.

Fine if your are 35'- 40' but what we started off here was with 50' + berthing onto marina pontoon so all I am saying is stern too is easier for someone starting off with this size of boat, trying bow on while getting the hang of close qaurter stuff and receipe for cock up.
 
I can't think of any berths in uk marinas where the pontoon extends enough to allow you to berth bow to and still be able to disenbark using the transom door? Regardless of the size of the boat. Maybe if on a visiting pontoon or hammer head....

In the six years of so I've been boating I've never moored bow to, always stern to. As we have two children it makes it soooo much safer being able to walk off the boat.
 
spot on, roll off a buoy fender (use warp also if necessary) bring engine end out into the wind thus controlled, and no bathing platform bashing.

If not too much wind I just use the engines against the bouy fender without the warp useally enough.
 
I am trying to discribe the best and easyest way to moor. Using an along side berth ferinstance. Taking no account of the thousands of different situations with finger berths. Or the fact, that some numpties have designed boats that you canot get off the side of.

Just because it might be conveniant to moor stern in, being able to step off etc. Does not make it corect from a boat handling position. If thats the only sencible way to berth, then so be it. But it will be difficult and you risk loosing control.

Maybe if you'd said in the first place, you were on a finger berth. We could have saved all the discusion.
 
What I can never understand, is why folk incist on going out forwards from every where. I've never been on any course, no one ever showed me how to drive a boat. It's just bloody obvious. Bows are round, at the back is a square point that cannot be fendered, even though some prat with a BT thinks he has to use it for each and every manuver.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear that the courses are teaching My methods of lassooing cleats, no jumping off and bouncing off big round fender.Keep it up!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Well it has to be the correct boat handling position if its the only way you can get in and out. Great stuff mooring bow in if your boat fits not much use if it does'nt.

I've been on all types of berths and moor according to what is the easiest and safest way to do it, if its bow in or bow on first great if I have the room if not then stern on/in first but I know my boat fairly well now so can make that call. If you you are new to it and have come from stern drives to 1400hp 50' shafts and you feel more comfortable going in stern too whats the problem, my view, use any bloomin method to get you in as easy as possible, bow thruster, stern thruster, engines, warps, auto pilot, Kids on a stick what ever, get your confidence up then start fiddling about with other methods, its not a competition as to who can follow the RYA book to the letter.

All this about wind and tide and BT can't handle it, absolutely, definitey, positively right..OK, as GPS is an aid to navigation so is BT an aid to berthing.

What is it with some people and thusters its like you broke some secret code amoungst the fraternity if you switch it on? We are not taking someone out in his new shiney boat in a houlie and raging spring tide to practice his berthing, not yet anyway.

Right I am off to see how big a bow thruster I can fit, 20 KW should to the trick. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
One other point of course is this. If one was coming alongside a pontoon on a fast flowing river with the tide flowing head on to your bow, then of course its neither bow or stern first, its shuffle sideways.

I know this from experience (or should I say lack of at the time) foolishly brought the nose in without allowing for the strength of the stream, tide dragged bow in toward bank and ended up sideways against the bow of boat to my stern.

Again one cant go in stern first in this situation, because as soon as you stick the stern in the tidal flow will grab the bow and push it down river.

Only succedded on my second attempt (having prised myself off ) by coming parallel to gap and stuffling her in on engines keeping the nose into the stream, and getting a bow rope secured.
 
You just dont want to see the wood for the tree's. Do you!! And then after fifty million bloody posts, we discover your trying to moor stern to while the rest of us were mooring alongside!! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

No ones argued against having a bow thruster, indeed I sujested that 50ft boats need one.

The problem with bow thrusters is, folk use them inapropriatly and try to do things arse about face, thus creating problems that they need not have had in the first place. Besides, theres quite enough to do, controlling two engines without having to fart about with BT as well.

Back to your newly found, stern on mooring. You have no choice but to use BT and engines. Though you could drop the anchor of course.

I think in your situation I'd use plan B and get the marina staff to give you a hand. I've done it loads of times when single handed. Even got a marina tug boat out a couple of times.

It's not about being proud. So please dont lecture me. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
Eh? not lecturing at all friend, all I ve done is said what ever way a person with a new boat feels comfortable berthing is ok by me, I am not telling anyone berth this way or that! and this is the best way above all else.

Knowing the situation size of boat etc getting your bum on first (in sheltered water and no tide running) is a good way to get your confidence up when that's what you have been used to previous, not suggesting death defying leaps to the toon, Roy Rogers with the warps or stuffing the ass end to bits.

I would suggest many /most on here who are in marina's are mooring on fingers and lots are stern too, I go where ever they stick me sometimes alongside and sometimes stern too. Several have stated that they find getting the stern on first alongside or 'too' suits them for their situation.

Seems to be your way or no way.

We're all managing to berth without smashing the place to bits. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
I appreciate that most folk seem to be talking about getting into a Marina Berth - but in many situations IMHO it is useful to also know when it's best just to give up and start again!

Fenders are also useful........... for fendering!.... so if you find that you end up lying against your neighbour when you "haven't quite made it" (and find it is just easier from that position just to warp her in to her berth properly rather than back out and start again) If you are well fendered it is no problem whatever he has on his boat and in practice I find the fact that when you are well fendered (whatever the situation) means you don't often "use" them as you are not so paranoid of an accidental "touch" to a nearby by boat or pontoon or wall and are more confident in using the extra foot or two.

I know this is a MOBO thread and about having twin engines..... but having also had a lot of experiance also on the Raggies with boats that will either not steer astern or seem completely unpredictable astern - I find that once you have found the quirks of your boat that they are easy enough to work around when you KNOW them. I had one small sailing boat which would never steer in reverse (pretty much the same with my mates CI22 MOBO) in practice this was quite useful as you always KNEW that you would be going straight astern and planned accordingly (unless you could clearly see the tidal stream!).

With one engine to "steer" you also get used to "giving her a bit of welly" to kick her a#se around - and discover how quickly you can stop, especially if you don't "Crash" the gearbox into reverse as it gives the prop a chance to clear the disturbed water and therefore gives more grip for your "brake" (as well as looking after your gearbox). Of course fenders are always a good idea and gives confidence!

As already said, practice makes perfect..........the bouys on swinging moorings are IMHO perfect, especially when you get used to drifting and letting the boat show you what happens without the risk of hitting anyone, but still being able to have a fixed reference point.
 
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