Shafts v Drives

Nonsence. Ships and ferrys do it all the time. Your mainly pushing one engine against the other. The rope is only counteracting wind and maybe a little more. The idea is not to use all available power!! Just enough. Maybe even knock one out of gear and back in again, I have to some times.

My crews new last year. Took about five minutes for her to get the idea. Same with last crew and she was thick!!

Doing it your way, will eventually lead to trouble. Arse end tied up and bows drifting away, cos to much wind or BT packs in. Boat uncontrolabe, cos cant use engines. Arse end smashed up with the enormous leverage.

You can usually put bow right over the cleat, say, boat 45% to pontoon. So rope can just be dangled over cleat. (Not so much in a marina pen. Obvious)

Big round fender on bows always. For rolling arse end in and out of berth with.

Same for leaving berth. Except, no rope needed with twins. Just roll arse end out sideways. Surprisingly you can get near to 90% with only the fender touching the pontoon. (some one watching of course, if you have to go to the limits.)
 
Very true my friend but ships are thousands of tons and have monsterous big winches to help everything along.

I don't think someone wanting to get some practice in on a new boat is going to be doing it in a gale o wind, everything should be nice and steady and as little wind or tide to start with. Get your confidence level up and then start building to wind/ tide , bow first stuff. No point in jumping in with wind, tide, bow too, lassooing ropes to cleats etc if by the end of it your nerves are shot to bits and confidence gone.

I can see where you are coming from but my point is that this is an easy method to get everyone up and running, if thruster packs in you at least have the ability to pull her back with the head rope, no chance of doing that with the stern swung out.

The method you forward is great once you have mastered the ' don't panic Mr Mannering, don't panic!' and chuck it in and out of gear all back to front.

How would you berth in the Med? you have no alternative but berth bum too first and there is no way of dropping lines over cleats etc.

............"Pull yourself together Corporal Jones" /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
Can I just say, on an out drive boat its is easier to reverse in a strong wind close to a pontoon, if you then put a loop from a stern cleat but make the rope a Little longer than normal , you can then turn helm to pontoon, and put outside engine in forward and inside engine in reverse and spin the bow toward the pontoon until you can get a rope on, secure said rope and with outside engine now in reverse, pull the stern into the pontoon, the whole manoeuvre must be done with only just enough power to make the boat move, not to make her fly round.
 
Reading all the posts; there is a lot more to this mobo manuvoring (sp!?) than meets the eye.

Anyone prepared to let a raggie have a go? I'm sure that I'll make a real pig's ear of it.
 
Bob on, totally agree, its alot easier to also get the rope on as you are lower down and almost stretch to the cleat. Everything goes swimmingly as you say but any vroom vroom and ping everything goes to pot, bow shoots in bounces off fenders and out again, of course I have never been guilty of such a thing just mention it as an example, my stern too manouvres are always perfect /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone prepared to let a raggie have a go? I'm sure that I'll make a real pig's ear of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think size wise folk here are a bit out of my experiance. Most of my close quarters MOBO experiance is with my fathers boat - 33 foot displacement with shafts (enclosed wheel house and no flybridge) and no bow thruster BUT the props are now "handed" - it makes a BIG difference.

Absolutely no problem turning it on the spot or manouvering astern, IMHO the "secret" is to be prepared to give it a bit of welly when needed to keep steerage way and to think ahead - and sometimes just to let it drift.........and no need to "crash" the gearboxes into reverse!

But I guess the biggest "secret" is practice and knowing how the current and wind is likely to affect you (not always easy inside a wheelhouse), as I don't use the boat at close quarters that often I do now and again still have a practice around a mooring buoy - mostly to get a feel again for the size and what bits I can't see close up.

I have never used stern drives.....or a bow thruster (but I have nothing against them, apart from they have taken a LOT of the fun out of watching other folk moor up! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

Both twin drives and shafts are a damn sight easier than a single engine with a long deep keel!

Or I guess the other "secret" is to get a certificate from the RYA. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
For what it's worth I find my current boat, which is a single shaft, a lot easier to handle than my old one which had twin sterndrives.

I expect it's more to do with it's keel and sheer weight though. It stays where I put it rather than getting blown all over the place like the old plastic thing did.

The better half much prefers it as well as she can take her time getting the ropes on.
 
Know the feeling well.
Went straight to a 51 footer on shafts last January.
Have loads of experience on RIBs.
My golden rule is - do everything VERY slowly.
And despite what people think - use the thrusters.
I'm getting more confident now and dont use the thrusters as much but IMHO it is better to get there without any bumps than to try and be slick.
I agree that the helm doesnt do anything during manoeuvring but if you want to spin round on the spot (one engine forwards - one backwards) you can turn the helm in the direction you want to turn - apparently it helps the prop that is going forward - works for me especially from a standstill.

Also consider going backwards more often - I seem have much more control in reverse.

I'm very much a novice but I consider that I'm experienced in wind / tide / apparent wind effects etc.
Experience tells me - always have an emergency plan and never let the situation get out of control.
 
Twin shafts! otherwise the tendancy is to stear. i was amazed just how much control twin shafts give no need to check your stearing possition.

What i really like, outdrive or shafts, is the parking! just back into a space 2feet wide give a good burst of ahead hey presto! You can tie up without touching the other boats.
 
No. You've got it wrong. No one pulls my boat anywhere and you dont need a winch. The rope is just looped over the cleat. It dont have to be tight. Thing is, nothing can go wrong. They either get the cleat, as in most times, or they miss umpteen times. It does not matter. There is nothing lost and no jumping death defying leaps off boat. Your in control all the time.

In the med, it's no different, you drop the anchor first. Just the same effect as getting a bow rope on. Else pick up a buoy for bows. Then back in.

The approch will differ every time. If wind blowing on to pontoon, it dont matter much what you do. It's glued there. But thats luck, not management. Thing is with wife type crew. You need one method for all situations. There not going to study the wind or tide when coming into the marina or mooring. There are many ways that will work in different conditions.

But this is the numpty method that works each and every time. It works because you have more power than any tide or wind is going to beat and you dont need to teach a diffent method every day, So the crew/wife knows exactly what to do each time. one thing and only one thing.

Course. If yer trying to back into a finger pontoon, with the finger half as long as boat, as many folk are. Yer largely doomed before you start and more in lap of gods. So maybe dont do it!!
 
Adrian,
All the best with the new boat.
Is she a hardtop?
Any chance of posting some pics here?
Mick.
 
[ QUOTE ]
practise makes perfect , well good, well better than average .er on a good day.

[/ QUOTE ]

.......and guaranteed 100% the perfect first time manouvre when.............. no Sunday afternoon Gawkers / Experts around /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Excellent stuff, I love a good debate to liven up dull evenings.
I will have to post on the difference between flybridge / sports cruiser. Good to see that hlb and nautical are as passionate as ever - can't wait for IPS /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Getting back to the thread...

As I said, I can berth the thing OK but I've plenty of room.
Concern is with tight spots - stern drives were great in this respect.

Agree with some of the comments above...
Practice and get instruction:
I've had a couple of hours instruction so far and the tip i've been given is to practice which method suits us best. At the moment it is lots of thruster which will reduce as confidence grows.
Leave helm centered:
Thats what I'm doing but the difference is that the sterndrive boat pivots further aft so you kind of steer the whole boat v shafts which pivot about the center (ish) - when the bow goes one way the stern goes the other. I will get used to this with practice.

Looks like practice is the key and I have all winter to learn /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Of course you are right - nobody will witness the perfect manouver but the whole world will be watching when I c@ck it up /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
It's all about practice and practice for the fun of it, with a good boat. I remember the time, tied to the wall in Polpero. Hardly a harbour. Big swell. We had to untie the boat before climbing down long ladder. So I got down and tried to hold boat on engines, at the side of ladder whilst Debs got down. Could hold it a foot away, but Debs would not move off ladder. So turned boat round and could now hold bows six inch off ladder. Still Debs would not step back. So moved in closer, and closer. Till bow rail tupped her up arse and she arrived on deck!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
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