Setting the storm jib

[Praxinoscope]

Interesting. Have had to take diversion for summer F10 on three occasions, but all of them were well predicted for up to a week ahead (only the precise force, from F8-11, and centre, varied over the last few days). Whilst have seen extreme gusts in hilly coastal locations, very rare to have a forecast change to F10-11 without appearing as gale, or at least suspiciously very unstable, in the forward outlook over a week.

The two of us on board weere both experienced sailors, with over 70 years of sailing experience between us, both in UK and various other European waters. The way the conditions changed were very unusual and neither of us had seen this happen before or since, but all I can say is that when the windspeed indicator showed 55knts we were glad we had plenty of searoom to heave to in.

 

[geem]

I agree.

(A) If you have an "honest to goodness" Bermuda cutter, with the removable inner forestay running parallel to the outer one, from the upper spreaders to a point 1/3 of the way from the stemhead to the mast, with runners, you don't have a problem - the Highfield lever works well.

(B) Arrangements with an inner forestay running to the masthead and down to a point further aft, in the attempt to avoid runners, "not so much", because inner is sharing the load.

(C) the true "slutter", with the lower forestay from a point well down on the mast to the stemhead works well if there are runners.

We have option C. The second stay with furler is two feet back from the main forestay furler and parallel. This translate to a mast fixing point over six feet down the mast from the attachment of the main forestay. The mast is 57ft of the deck. We have runners fitted. We used to get creases in the staysail going to windward when it was blowing about 30kts but more halyard tension and more backstay sorted that out so we get a nice crease free sail.

 

[jdc]

I don't know whether to answer 'never; or '100% of the time'. I have a cutter rig with the staysail on roller furling. Despite Minn's sailmaker friend's gloom I don't really notice the wear on the staysail from the yankee, and it's worth noting that it's always up and so gets all the really strong winds unlike the yankee which gets furled away, so it's reasonable that it needs looking after from time to time. I've never set half of it, always 100% or 0%.

Whether it's a storm jib is debatable. When being 'inspected' prior to races such as the AZAB they usually want to see an orange thing, but the orange thing is no stronger and being hanked-on is less deployable so I never use it, relying entirely on the normal staysail. I've used the staysail in 50 knots (the most I've experienced under-way), and in fact in reasonably sheltered waters can go upwind (sort-of, not a brilliant tack angle) with only the staysail set. I've also had only the staysail set in some gales when on a broad reach and not yet felt over-canvassed. It does need bracing with the running back-stays, as would any sail set on the inner-forestay.

FWIW I have the same opinion of trisails: orange clutter in the locker whose sole purpose is to 'satisfy' race inspectors. I much prefer a deep third reef in the main (with two lines led back to the cockpit). The thought of struggling on the coachroof trying to swap the sails which run in the mast groove gives me the willies - a big, fully battened mainsail which weighs more than I can lift is not something I want to be detaching in a storm. Some propose to set the trisail 'flying' on a wire luff which avoids that problem but I think it unlikely to work in the very circumstances one might want it - just how tight could one get the luff in, say, 60 knots of wind, and would the main halyard sheeve take this force?

 

[geem]

I don't know whether to answer 'never; or '100% of the time'. I have a cutter rig with the staysail on roller furling. Despite Minn's sailmaker friend's gloom I don't really notice the wear on the staysail from the yankee, and it's worth noting that it's always up and so gets all the really strong winds unlike the yankee which gets furled away, so it's reasonable that it needs looking after from time to time. I've never set half of it, always 100% or 0%.

Whether it's a storm jib is debatable. When being 'inspected' prior to races such as the AZAB they usually want to see an orange thing, but the orange thing is no stronger and being hanked-on is less deployable so I never use it, relying entirely on the normal staysail. I've used the staysail in 50 knots (the most I've experienced under-way), and in fact in reasonably sheltered waters can go upwind (sort-of, not a brilliant tack angle) with only the staysail set. I've also had only the staysail set in some gales when on a broad reach and not yet felt over-canvassed. It does need bracing with the running back-stays, as would any sail set on the inner-forestay.

FWIW I have the same opinion of trisails: orange clutter in the locker whose sole purpose is to 'satisfy' race inspectors. I much prefer a deep third reef in the main (with two lines led back to the cockpit). The thought of struggling on the coachroof trying to swap the sails which run in the mast groove gives me the willies - a big, fully battened mainsail which weighs more than I can lift is not something I want to be detaching in a storm. Some propose to set the trisail 'flying' on a wire luff which avoids that problem but I think it unlikely to work in the very circumstances one might want it - just how tight could one get the luff in, say, 60 knots of wind, and would the main halyard sheeve take this force?

+1. We share the same view/experiences

 

[Kukri]

I do like trysails. Mine has its own track and can live, already hanked on, in its bag, on deck. This means that the mainsail can be hauled down and the boom can be parked until it is wanted again.

 

[jdc]

I do like trysails. Mine has its own track and can live, already hanked on, in its bag, on deck. This means that the mainsail can be hauled down and the boom can be parked until it is wanted again.

That's the proper way to do it, and i rather wish I'd specified that when my mast was being made. Is the trisail track outside the mast, ie a retro-fit, or is it part of the Aluminium extrusion?

 

[weustace]

Interesting discussion on mounting options. I am still inclined to get it sorted eventually on the Achilles 24; the option I was intending to go for is along the lines of Minn's option B. It seems that, in the conditions in which I would like to attach a temporary inner forestay and hank on a storm jib, I am unlikely to want to faff around with runners... or am I?

Now I give it some further thought, perhaps it would be better to have an inner forestay running from further down the mast with a "running" backstay that's unlikely to need much attention once rigged, on the premise that I'm unlikely to want the storm jib without at least 3 mainsail reefs anyway... thoughts? (I've never sailed a boat with running backstays so am a bit in the dark). It's a masthead single-spreader rig, and the storm jib luff length as is would go to a foot or so above the spreaders.

 

[geem]

Interesting discussion on mounting options. I am still inclined to get it sorted eventually on the Achilles 24; the option I was intending to go for is along the lines of Minn's option B. It seems that, in the conditions in which I would like to attach a temporary inner forestay and hank on a storm jib, I am unlikely to want to faff around with runners... or am I?

Now I give it some further thought, perhaps it would be better to have an inner forestay running from further down the mast with a "running" backstay that's unlikely to need much attention once rigged, on the premise that I'm unlikely to want the storm jib without at least 3 mainsail reefs anyway... thoughts? (I've never sailed a boat with running backstays so am a bit in the dark). It's a masthead single-spreader rig, and the storm jib luff length as is would go to a foot or so above the spreaders.

Because our second forestay is a long way forward our runners are fairly high up the mast circa 7 ft from the top on a 57 ft mast. We can fit and forget the runners once we have two reefs in the main. At this point we are likely to be using the staysail so it works very well for us. If we tack there is no need to touch the runners and the boom clears the runners as does the second reef so we would set both runners if we are tacking to windward. We sheet the runners through a 4:1 tackle to the spinnaker winches. If we are only on one tack for the trip then we just set the high-side runner. The runner makes a nice extra handhold near the cockpit when the weather gets bumpy.