Serious Nav Lights Colregs question

rwoofer

rwoofer

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I am currently in the commissioning process for a new boat that does not have bow sidelights and a stern light. In order to achieve compliance with regulations when under motor, the manufacturer is suggesting a combination of lights that I have never seen before:

One allround masthead white light + red/green sidelights in place of white steaming lights (ie on the mast)

I'm not any expert on Colregs, but this suggestion does appear to meet the requirements as laid out in Rule 23:

"(d)(i) A power-driven vessel of less than 12 metres in length may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and sidelights;"

and Annex 1

"(2)(d) A power-driven vessel of less than 12 metres in length may carry the uppermost light at a height of less than 2.5 metres above the gunwale. When however a masthead light is carried in addition to sidelights and a sternlight or the all-round light prescribed in Rule 23(d)(i) is carried in addition to sidelights, then such masthead light or all-round light shall be carried at least 1 metre higher than the sidelights."

Can anyone more knowledgeable tell me if I've made a mistake in my interpretation?

Thanks
 
How would this work when under sail ( I am assuming you are commissioning a sail boat)? The all round light would have to be on for a stern light but would also look like a steaming light? If you turned it off you would have no stern light
 
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a red green mounted on the front of the mast couldn't possibly IMHO cover the required 112.5 degrees of visibility without the mast obstructing the light

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Surely it could. After all, a steaming light has to cover that angle, and doesn't seem to have too much trouble when mounted on the mast.

The main prob is the red/green being obscured by genoa, unless you're also goingt to have a masthead tricolour too. There's also the question of where the white stern light goes (for the red/green up the mast).
 
You would need a seperately switched stern light. As well as the all round white and sidelights.
 
If you are talking about a mobo, then, subject to the loa restriction you have already picked up on, it will be fine. The only qualitication I would make is to have the all round white seperately switchable so you can use it as an anchor light.

I have exactly this set-up on my small mobo. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Sorry I'm talking about a sailing boat, when under motor. So no genoa up, but I guess the forestay could obscure it from absolutely dead ahead.

I quite like the idea as it means not having to install extra holes in the deck forward and aft to fit the usual bow/stern lights.
 
What are these boys on? The fairly widespread fit is deck level rgw and a steaming light, a masthead tri for sailing, plus extras. We are talking new boat here, so probably somewhere between 30,000 - 100,000 pounds. You are probably too far down the road now, but I'd walk from anyone wanting to depart from a well tried and tested formula on a new boat of that sort of value. Imagine taking delivery of a new car and the dealer saying, "Oh, tail lights? Yeah, we've got this bolt-on thing that sits on the back bumper." A second-hand trailer sailer, maybe, but new? It's legal - I think - but absurd. They are taking the p***.

Regards, Mudhook
 
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Can anyone more knowledgeable tell me if I've made a mistake in my interpretation

[/ QUOTE ] It may be a little unusual but it conforms with the requirements of the regulations provided the all round white is at least 1metre above the side lights.

The side lights can even be combined into one bicolour lantern. If that is fitted on the front of the mast the red and green sectors will be visible through the correct angle just as a steaming light is when fixed to the front of the mast.

I assume a tricolour is being fitted for use when sailing as the mast mounted side lights, or bicolour, will be obscured by the head-sail. Presumably that will be combined with the all round white as the familiar "tri-white" unit.

With the proposed arrangement there will be no need for a separate stern light as the all round white serves as stern light under power and the tricolour is all that is required under sail.

Think about what other vessels will see. Under power they must see a white over a red (from the port side) or green (from the stbd side) from any point forward of 22.5° abaft the beam and a single white from astern (up to 22.5° abaft the beam)

Despite it complying with the regs there are some aspects I do not like. Firstly you have no option to use deck level lights in conditions in which they would be preferable. IE when mast mounted lights are likely to disappear among the shore lights. Secondly you do not have a second set of lights that can be used in many situations if any bulbs fail.

Subject to the comments in the previous paragraph it is a cunning solution. A tri-white on top of the mast and a bicolour partway up the mast.
 
On the premise it is sensible to have a backup option when things fail, and they will, the seamanlike route is to have:
- bow red and green, white steaming light front of mast, white stern light
- masthead tricolour
- masthead white anchor light
If you intend to do a lot of night sailing a masthead white strobe will help scare off a big ship but only use it if you really think a ship hasn't seen you and you can't get radio contact.

Anything else is a cheap and less safe option.
 
That's what was on my boat and is used most of the time. I've added a separate stern light for sailing only.

The r & g are on the side of the cabin, switchable on or off.
The next switch is between the masthead all-round white or the stern white. This masthead light then doubles as the anchor light.
The combination of r&g with white masthead gives excellent visibilty at sea, but is strictly for motor-sailing. In pracitce I use it as it gives ships more time to see me. On the lakes, where there's only recreational sailors and the distances are far less I use the r&g with the stern white light.
 
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...subject to the loa restriction you have already picked up on, it will be fine...


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but it will be difficult to show legal lights if you motor sail with the genoa up
 
Aside from the legal requirements, which have already been discussed in some detail, I would reject any lighting arrangement that appears unusual as it will cause confusion.

'Usual' is tricolour or red/green + stern + steaming (under power). Mariners get used to recognising those combinations and, at a glance, should know what they are looking at when at sea at night. Variations will confuse and leave you the risk that your intentions will not be clear.

Is there a compelling reason why they should do it this way? If not, I'd reject it.
 
IMHO ... they are trying to go a cheap option and less for them to do ... I would insist on correct usual practice of sides at near deck / pulpit level - if Pulpit then a bicolour is excellent ... proper mast steaming light ... an anchor light and stern ... all switchable to conform to regs ref motor / saili / motor-sail etc. As to Tricolour - I'm not a believer in them ... so that's your choice ....

Any variation on normal practice is IMHO a no-no ..... even if legal.

Go further - smaller boats can get away with a white light or torch ... but most will fit nav lights as per larger boats ... why ? Simple - it['s what expected to be seen.

Tell 'em to do the job properly ... and stop wasting your time !! You's paying - you decide !
 
Also, they won't be going up the mast to replace your RG running lights which will go first because you use them most. You will.
 
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