Seperator for my generator not working correctly

[lanerboy]

Hi All

I have had a separator fitted to my boat for my genny its a halyard sepertator, I was told by the company I bought it off thast this was the correct one for my genny, I have had a company fit it but I still have lots of water coming out the genny exhaust

I tried to take some pictures at the week end of the installation to see if anyone can throw any ideas into the pot as to why its not working correctly

cheers shawn

This is a short video showing the exhaust outlet after the separator was fitted

 

[admillington]

I have a similar setup and it works.

I assume that the white unit on the last picture is a non return valve - could this be causing too much back pressure. What about trying it without this?

My water outlet is a lot closer to the waterline and again I wonder if trying to push the water out from the bottom of the boat is too much.


-Andrew

Hi All

I have had a separator fitted to my boat for my genny its a halyard sepertator, I was told by the company I bought it off thast this was the correct one for my genny, I have had a company fit it but I still have lots of water coming out the genny exhaust

I tried to take some pictures at the week end of the installation to see if anyone can throw any ideas into the pot as to why its not working correctly

cheers shawn

This is a short video showing the exhaust outlet after the separator was fitted

 

[lanerboy]

Hi Andrew

We tried it without the none return valve and it was just the same, I have spoken to halyard and they said it should work with the seacock where it is and they suggested the none return valve so no water can get pushed back up from the prop wash

cheers shawn

 

[volvopaul]

Measure from the lower of the separator to the waterline and go by the guidelines on the unit. As I've said before the outlet for the water should be as near the boats waterline as possible to reduce back pressure, ideal outlet fitting should be just below the water
One but not deep in the V of the hull. Take a look on vetus website they give the correct drawing as you have a vetus water lock inline, I'd also check that the vetus water lock is in the right place it needs to be lower than the exhaust elbow of the genny to work correctly and be of the correct size in litres to collect a said amount if water when the genny is shut down not to allow water into the engine.

 

[lanerboy]

Paul I have spoken to a chap called James at halyard and sent him the same set of pictures he says he cannot see any problem with the installation of the kit, There is a Targa 47 with the same kit as mine but slightly more power full as genny is bigger and his is in the same place regards the seacock and his works fine so I am a little baffled ?????????

 

[volvopaul]

After a bit of research your genset emits 20.7 litres a minute at 3000 rpm, normal running speed , the model separator you have is rated at a max of 18 litres a minute , looking at the specs you require the next model up in the range the 5000 model rated at 42 litres a minute.
Vetus also state that the water exit needs to be near the waterline as possible to reduce back pressure.

 

[Chill]

On our T46 it has a factory fitted separator and we get water from the exhaust but not as much as in your video!

 

[lanerboy]

After a bit of research your genset emits 20.7 litres a minute at 3000 rpm, normal running speed , the model separator you have is rated at a max of 18 litres a minute , looking at the specs you require the next model up in the range the 5000 model rated at 42 litres a minute.
Vetus also state that the water exit needs to be near the waterline as possible to reduce back pressure.

Volvopaul is correct in his findings and I do indeed need a larger separator as the one I have been supplied with is not capable of moving that much water and after speaking with the people I purchased it from they have agreed to supply the next size up at no extra cost for which I am very grate full and it proves that there still are great companies out there to deal with

Also a big thank you to Volvopaul who I must say has been terrific in helping me sort this problem he has took it upon himself to investigate the flow rate etc etc of my genny and compare it to the separator I had fitted and diagnose this was incorrect

He has done this all in his own working day and has not asked me for a penny for his time and effort and I must say a big thanks to paul for this, and this is not the 1st time he has helped me out for free

It just goes to show what a great forum this is and the great depth of knowledge some people have and the effort they go to in order to help others, I find this place invaluable

cheers shawn

 

[SEARANGER ANCASTER]

I know you seem to have got this sorted but just thought to mention that I always got a little water coming out on mine too until I changed the impeller on the genny and its now stopped.( The one taken out did have some fins missing !) Dont ask me why , but it has def cured the problem , not that it actually was much but was a bit annoying.

 

[ARE]

I would also try and remove the hump just before the non return valve shown in the last picture. The drain from the water separator should be a continuous downward run, the hump at the bottom will slow down the water and this will back up into the water separator. You should be able to see this in the clear hose.

Which separator do you currently have fitted? and what genset? as I would expect a lot more separation than your video show's with only a 3lt per minute difference between your generator and the separator flow rates.

Regards Anthony.

 

[lanerboy]

Hi Anthony

I currently have the Halyard 4000 fitted which moves a max of 18lts per minute and my genny is a Dynamica Emi 80 which at 3000 rpm moves 21lts per minute and at 3600 rpm moves 24lts per minute so I just don't think it can cope

Regards the hump in the pipe yes I agree I can get this sorted by securing the pipe a little higher up a bit further along from the hump

cheers

 

[jfm]

Lanerboy, good to hear you have a plan to get this fixed. It's definitely not right in the video

The backpressure point is a red herring imho. By exiting closer to the w/line there would be no net change in back pressure and unless the water was actually backing up all the way to the separator (Was it? Surely not?) then it is a complete irrelevance

That NR valve isn't a beautiful installation. It shouldn't be there at all imho, but if you are going to have it then it should be above w/line. The installer has instroduced a plastic component and 2 jubilee clipped joints below the waterline, completely unnecessarily, grrr. I would get a new piece of pipe and move the N/R valve above the w/line. Well, I'd actually chuck it in the bin, but if you really want it then put it above w/line imho. Also, the pipes are not properly clipped imho. There are even hoojamaflips in the picture to clip the water discharge pipe to, but they're not used!

 

[jfm]

3000 rpm moves 21lts per minute and at 3600 rpm moves 24lts per minute

Yours is 3000rpm Lanerboy. 3600 is the setting for making USA flavoured electricity @60Hz, rather than European 50Hz

 

[lanerboy]

Hi John

Thanks for your comments, you are correct in saying about the water backing up all the way to the separator this was not the case and I could clearly see a mixture of water and air running down the clear pipe to the seacock even before the return valve was fitted, it just seemed like the separator could not cope with the amount of water being forced into it as we have now discovered is the cause,

The installation instructions say that if the water exit is situated above the props it is a good idea to fit the none return valve to stop the chance of water being pushed back up the pipe with prop wash so this was fitted afterwards as a matter of caution.

I agree regards the pipe being clipped in and also the bulge just in front of the none return valve, I will sort this out next time I am on the boat, I will clip the pipe up higher to remove the bulge so it runs smoothly in a downwards direction.

Thanks for everyone's input once again very helpful as usual

cheers shawn

 

[jfm]

you are correct in saying about the water backing up all the way to the separator this was not the case and I could clearly see a mixture of water and air running down the clear pipe to the seacock

OK. In that case "back pressure" is a total red herring. Raising the seacock doesn't affect the pressure in the pipe

was fitted afterwards as a matter of caution.

Plastic fitting and 2 jubilee clipped joints below waterline is the total opposite of caution. The prop wash worry feels like fantasy to me. I'd just get rid of the NR valve

 

[ARE]

[/QUOTE]Plastic fitting and 2 jubilee clipped joints below waterline is the total opposite of caution. The prop wash worry feels like fantasy to me. I'd just get rid of the NR valve[/QUOTE]

I have to disagree here, I have seen a number of generators back filled though the sea water drain of the separator due to positive pressure on the hull drain fitting while underway and the generator not running. I agree it should be well above waterline.

Every Princess built for the last 4-5 years has the same NR valve factory fitted.

Regards Anthony.

 

[jfm]

I have to disagree here, I have seen a number of generators back filled though the sea water drain of the separator due to positive pressure on the hull drain fitting while underway and the generator not running. I agree it should be well above waterline.

Every Princess built for the last 4-5 years has the same NR valve factory fitted.

Regards Anthony.

OK fair enough! I've cruised for 10 years plus and half a dozen of your gensets and never had such an issue, though I always have a reverse scoop on the outlet - I wonder whether the several gensets you have seen backfilled had reverse scoops.

But if you've seen it several times then it must be possible in certain conditions so yep, keep the NR valve Lanerboy and ignore my comments. But Anthony we are agreed it should be installed above the w/line

 

[lanerboy]

so you are saying the none return valve should be fitted above the waterline which I have circled in the picture below, this doesn't give much room from the separator to the valve will it be ok up there

 

[jfm]

Yep. That's where it should be - just above red circle. Doesn't matter that it is then only 300mm from separator

You could just ignore me on this Shawn. I'm being OCD in saying that you shouldn't have 2 jubilee clipped joints under the w/line when you don't need to. I don't wish to infect others with OCD-ness

 

[lanerboy]

Lol ocd can be dangerous / expensive but I do agree with you on this John, I am a strong believer in having less to go wrong below the water line it just helps me sleep at night I will get this changed