Selling with Osmosis

J

julianspurr

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I sold my boat in 2004 (an Etap 30) and the buyer's survey found the start of Osmitic blistering on the hull. The broker (Opal) confirmed this diagnosis.
We got a quote for repair and halved the cost (i.e. I dropped the price by half the repair amount - approx £2500. Fair enough. The boat is now for sale again and the asking price is on the high side compared to other similar yachts. There is no mention however of the Osmosis and no mention of any epoxy treatment (which would surely be a bonus for the seller) so is it legal not to declare known faults from a previous survey? I ask purely out of interest as any buyer will presumably find this out after the expense of a survey and negotiate accordingly.
 
If there is no mention of the Epoxy treatment, which would normally be seen as a plus point, then I wonder if the current owner actually had the work done? It wouldn't be unknown to negotiate a price reduction on the basis of work required, then not to bother with getting it done.

Sadly, I doubt that there is an obligation to advise about faults.
 
Thanks Tisme - I agree that it is up to the new owner if the work is done and he is under no obligation to have it done. It's just that I have seen boats that have been sold as having Osmosis and being reduced in price accordingly and would be amazed if this was just a moral decision by the owner. Still you live and learn.
 
Without being an expert in the legalities, I'm pretty sure that for a private sale, even one "negociated" by a broker, the seller is under no obligation to volunteer any information. He can't make false claims, so if asked, would have to fess up.

Caveat emptor - let the buyer beware.
 
So many a survey comes up with 'osmosis', but this can vary enormously in degree. Depends whose side the surveyor is on - usually his own. However, IF fixed properly, then the boat should be fine. Why stir up objections unnecessarily?

Not your problem now to worry about is it?
 
Fuga - thanks for the response. I take your point and you are right that it isn't my problem but I am merely interested in the legality. It would apear that caveat emptor would be the rule of the day but as I said it puzzles me that certain boats are sold with the condition being admitted.
 
I think there are a couple of intersting points here.

First I believe that the buyer has to ask the right questions. If a false answer is given the buyer is liable for his ommission.
On the point of Osmosis being treated and then the hull epoxied. I dont believe that a survey would guarantee to pick this up and Im dont think it would improve the value of the boat. Buyers are wary of a boat that has had osmosis however well repaired. There are still stories of the attack coming back later in the boats life.

Hull preventative treatment before osmosis would increase the boats value.

As said earlier it may well be the new owner did not treat the osmosis as you do not indicate how bad, but the value discount gives me some idea that it was not sever, so perhaps it was not undertaken and the owner considers "let the buyer beware" as in selling a car privatley.
 
The term "admitted" as in "the condition being admitted" shows the hyperbole surrounding GRP and osmosis. Some people see it as a paint job, others as an expensive specialist job. Some buy a boat cheap because of it and sail away happy as flying fish. Others fear the appearance of the dreaded blisters some fine spring morning.
Osmosis is a good thing, if you're buying a boat because it means you can get a load of money off. If you're selling a boat with "the pox" it is almost an untouchable, unless some ridiculously expensive deal, with a man in a white coverall with a specialist machine, is made to ensure the boat will be treated and not infect the other boats in the yard for at least another ten years.
The reason I like GRP is becuase I can maintain it AND sail it. if I had brought a wooden boat I would lose the race with maintenance before even setting out on a voyage. GRP with osmosis is better than wood with neglect. But both are maintenance or if you like, repair, jobs.
 
As most people demand that a survey be carried out then it must be up to the purchaser to find the faults.
As a vendor you are simply saying "here is the boat, if it suits you make me an offer, this is what I would like"
 
Stelmar has it.

Under English law there is not obligation on a private seller to provide any information on the boat prior to sale. Caveat emptor. If the vendor was asked, and then lied about the previous osmosis and treatment, then the buyer would have a claim for misrepresentation, and could seek to have

If the buyer doesn't ask and doesn't conduct a survey, he'll have no comeback.

Then again, if the osmosis treatment was completely successful, why should the buyer be concerned?
 
I purchased a boat which the survey showed had osmotic blisters, and agreed a reduction accordingly to have the work done. The same surveyor supervised the work as a consultant on my behalf, and insisted on the moisture readings were at a proper level before each new gel coat applied. This means I have a report from him confirming the work was done correctly under his supervision, which would be invaluable if I decided to sell the boat at a later date, as I would certainly advertise it to a potential purchaser. The surveyors costs were agreed beforehand and I consider it was money well spent.
Hope this is helpfull.
Mike
 
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said it puzzles me that certain boats are sold with the condition being admitted.


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I think the reasoning behind it is that almost no buyer would part with tens of thousands without a survey.

If the buyer is allready aware of the problem it is less likely to scupper the sale as it can be negotiated into the deal .
 
Thanks everyone for all the good points - it certainly looks like there's no obligation on the seller although I just had a quick look on the Opal marine website and one of the points it makes to vendors is:

"Make sure that everything is in working order as far as possible and that any minor repairs have been carried out. If there are any known defects with the boat or its equipment please inform us as soon as possible"
 
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First I believe that the buyer has to ask the right questions. If a false answer is given the buyer is liable for his ommission.

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Surely a seller who did not declare osmosis would be making an 'osmission' or maybe an 'osmossion'.
 
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