Selling Boat and looking at Sea Trial and broker wants me the owner onboard? Is that normal?

T

truro expat

Member
Joined
2 Mar 2022
Messages
29
Visit site
Sorry my 2nd thread, I am now being told that I have to be present at the sea trial and onboard, the boat is in France and I am in UK so not particularly convenient!
When I purchased the boat the owner was not present and the broker did the trial?
They have suggested I could employee a skipper but that would be at my cost?
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated and I have only just been told about this and they have booked it all.
 
Does seem rather odd. Is this a French based broker, as may be different expectations there.

I guess this will come down to how keen you are to sell, how serious you think this potential purchaser is and how many other interested buyers you have.

If they are seriously interested, offered a good price AND paid a decent deposit I might be inclined to bite the bullet and go over for the sea trial. You can probably set the boat in the best light. And perhaps combine with a bit of extra cleaning/prep and removal of private gear.

On the other hand if not an unmissable offer and other parties available who are imposing less constraints, could argue if they want sea trial the buyer funds the skipper (but the broker selects the skipper, not the buyer). After all, if sea trial or survey necessitated a lift, the buyer usually pays for that.
 
Baffling; broker should have underwriting to cover the seatrial and if you aren't attending then they should find someone else to be in charge(although why the broker isn't capable is another stumper). Then again if you can manage to schedule the time you could always have a brief holiday break, at the buyers' expense naturally.
 
westernman said:
When I was boat shopping, most of the time the owner was present.
Click to expand...
When I was boat selling ( 2 sailing yachts U.K. based + 1 mobo SoF based ) with the boat broker handling it route i was not present , never requested .What’s there % age about ? They got rid of them for me .

If you have to be present may as well go the whole hog and e bay it or such like ! Cut out the brokerage fee ?
 
Based on my experience of buying and selling boats in France, I don't see any reason why you need to be present for the sea trial. I haven't been onboard for sea trials on any of boats I've sold, even though I live locally.

Under the MYBA contract, which most of the brokers use, the seller has to make the vessel available for sea trial but remains responsible for all risks and costs related to the vessel (other than in relation to the condition survey) until completion of the sale has taken place. Buyers and their brokers are understandably reluctant to accept responsibility for any damage to the vessel during the sea trial, and so it's normal for them to ask the seller to provide someone to act as captain and take instructions from the buyer's surveyor.

Whether your broker is able to do this for you or not depends on whether they possess the requisite licences and insurance and their organisation's internal policies. An increasing number of brokerage firms have a policy of not permitting their brokers to act as captain during the sea trial, as they are not usually "professional captains" and are supposed to be liaising with the buyer's broker and surveyor. Also, they don't want to have to deal with a hostile owner if something fails or gets broken during the sea trial.

Many of the local guardiennage companies can take care of this for you and however you arrange the captain, the cost should be reasonable.
 
IIRC it's a sizeable boat (60ft or so). The cost of a skipper for the morning will only be a few hundred € so I'd just pay it and get the thing sold.

Better that than missing a sale or even worse the boat getting damaged by an inexperienced broker.
 
Our experience buying in France reflected DAW's comments above.
The seller was expected to attend the sea trial but as he did not want to drive the boat ( he was selling due to lack of confidence in himself) there was a bit of a kerfuffle working out who was to be the actual 'skipper'. It ended up being one of the broker's qualified employees.
If we were selling I think I would want to have a trusted representative at the sea trial even if he wasn't skippering, just to look after my interests.
 
I would want to be on board for a number of reasons.

I don’t want anyone to break my boat or do anything silly.

There may be an issue which is perceived as a problem but in fact simply an operational function - we turned off the thruster master switch in the engine bay. They work perfectly. The buyer might believe you or they may hit you for a load of money. Either way being there on the day allows you to flip the switch and demonstrate functionality.

There’s a chance to but a face to a name on both sides. Show the buyer you’re a decent bloke, have instant responses for maintenance questions, show you know your boat and are a skilled owner / operator.

Be there to finalise a deal. Strike whilst the iron is hot.

Not being bothered to be there tells me as a buyer you don’t really give a sh1te so I’ll kick you in the nuts and try my luck with an anonymous absentee vendor.

From a broker’s point of view they don’t want to get accused of breaking a boat which they don’t really know. Rather than have a long drawn out legal battle it’s easier to have the vendor there on the day to avoid any ambiguity.
 
Aligment of expectations, factoring in French/UK broker traditions, probably wasn't done at the time of engaging said broker.
Is it detailed in fine print somewhere?

The story you've shared so far, also about running engines on the hard, would suggest you need a new broker, one with boat knowledge.
 
Generally agree with henry’s comments. There are lots of switches and breakers on boats.

In 99.99% of cases uk insurance policies will not give you anything like enough cover if you let the broker or their nominated skipper drive the boat. Sure they may say “don’t worry we the broker firm have insurance” (I’ve had that speech before) but they won’t. Don’t believe them. So think about that one carefully imho.

Normally buyer’s surveyor will be on board. Imho you want to be on board to “protect” your boat from them.

So I think OP’s broker is behaving well. Seller or seller’s hired skipper should drive the boat on the sea trial imho.
 
I also agree with the comments from henryf and jfm about protecting your boat and your interests, but just to clarify a couple of points in my earlier post ...

I wasn't suggesting allowing someone totally unfamiliar with the boat or its systems to act as captain during the sea trial. At the time of my two most recent sales I could not be present because of work commitments, so on both occasions I relied on professional skippers provided by Sunseeker who know their own boats reasonably well. During both sea trials and condition surveys, I was available by phone to answer any questions and made it clear to the broker, who was present throughout, that my prior authorisation was needed for any trials considered beyond "normal" and any inspection requiring things to be dismantled.

In each case I checked in advance with my own insurance company, who provided confirmation in writing that any person holding a suitable licence and using the boat with my permission would be fully covered by them, including for use of the boat during a sea trial related to a sale, as if they were the owner. My policy has endorsements for use by hired/professional crew as needed, so perhaps this is not always the case.
 
It all depends on individual circumstances.
From experience I bought the S/Skr as a newbie novice from the factory .It had returned as a pex from the Balearics .
They were refinishing them and I assumed trustingly being the factory and after MrB shaking my hand telling the staff “ ensure Mr ( my name ) s boat is prepared and gets everything a Sunseeker owner is accustomed with “ …..or words to that effect .I did not sea trial it a plane was awaiting @ Bournemouth .I trusted them .It worked out .
In the SoF the Sunseeker dealer ( handy in marina ) just carried on with the guardianship, sending a skipper for lessons etc .
At sale they said there brokers were all “ captains “ Regularly moving show boats and stock .Indeed we often were taken in quiet times on stock stuff . I vaguely remember something about insurance fully covered , but since the same guy was one day birthing a Pred 94 , I just assumed he could handle a Porto35 ….?
Similarly at Cannes they prep the pitch a few day before moving big yachts and stock boats etc without the owners onboard so I assumed they were insured covered ? They often move them from the transport ship bringing them from Poole to Villfranche back to La Napoule .Similarly shift stock twixt other offices along the CdA even Italy .So they are on stock all the time .I saw no reason to waste a day watching professionals work tbh .

I guess that’s down to choice of broker .

The sea trial went uneventfully = a sale .Guardian got it ready ( so iam told ) broker took them out for wiz round the bay of Cannes .

At the other end in Naples the current boat had a lad / Gardianarge, he apparently got it ready while we had morning coffee with the broker .The broker was previously to this job Itama s SoF dealer based in St tropez and told me he sold 40 new before the 2008 crash and moving back home .So I just assumed between the pair they new how it worked what switch should be on etc etc .Indeed that was the reality.= A sale .

It never occured like a car , house , business property , or other big ticket item that I would meet the seller at my first look with the thing offered / handled / brokered my a intermediary .I just assumed it would always be the intermediary ,the guy on the end of the phone , listed in the ad , or who’s email you contacted that you would face to face with the item in Q .

Thus was the case , is the case .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top