Selling an Australian Built Yacht in Europe

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swanson37

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Howdy All,

I am contemplating bringing my yacht to europe as I may be forced to leave Australia and don't particularly want to sell my boat here. The yacht is an australian custom built boat by a well regarded Australian designer. She's an oldish boat (1985) and what with the strength of the australian dollar used boats are not selling that well in Australia at the moment. This is simply because new ones are so much cheaper to get hold of particularly US and European ones.

Getting the yacht to Europe is going to be pricey I know, but the figure for shipping etc could be easily close to the amount I would have to lop off the value of my boat here to sell her quickly. I don't like the idea of her languishing in her mooring with nobody to care for her and being at the mercy of the local boatyard when things "happen" to her. (a haul out and anti-foul could cost the better part of 2500 AUD).

I haven't "finished" with my boat yet, I don't intend by any means to sell her as soon as I get to Europe.

My key question though is would you buy an Australian built yacht in Europe...I know that this is a very broad question with a lot of unknowns, but I guess what I am trying to establish is would you even look at the boat if it was for sale within your price range or would you not bother if you had never heard of the manufacturer?

Looking forward to your responses....

Cheers
Swanson 37 (yep that is the boat)...
 
Problem starts before that---if you are Australian,you would be liable to pay VAT ,I think ,after 6 months in EEC. Then if you want to sell,the boat would have to be brought into compliance with EC standards----could be expensive.
You might be better to take your losses and buy in Europe(if that's where you're heading)
 
No I wouldn't be interested in a non European, second hand yacht when resident in the UK. There is a large choice of yachts that are fully compliant with European and UK burdens to choose from, that can be bought for very reasonable prices, especially in the 30 - 35' range.


If this is the Swanson 37 class she is very similar to many late 1970s / early 1980's designs from Europe. Many second hand yacht buyers maybe more interested in the higher internal volume yachts that appeared from the early 1990s onwards, which are selling at reasonable prices.

There is a real risk that you spend the money getting her over here, plus Ludds comments, and find she just doesn't sell. I would tend to cut my losses on something like this.

A colleague advised me when I had two houses on the books that I needed to move on and get on with my life by selling the smaller house at a lower market price, instead of holding out for best price. We sold it on for a good few £10,000s below asking, got the money in the bank and moved on. It was relief to be free from what was becoming a burden. The shortfall in money is not missed now and wasn't such a big issue at the end of the day, although at the time it did appear that way.

Maybe you should sell it on and move on without it. There are good yachts at good prices available to purchase in the UK.
 
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Further to the VAT payment, your boat would be required to conform to the RCD requirements, as having been built outside the EU. I am not absolutely certain that this would apply to a boat the age of yours, but I think so. It could cost you big money to modify the boat to current EU standards, plus the admin. £5000 would seem to be a ball-park starting figure.

Edit: i checked the RYA site. The age of the boat appears to have no importance within RCD. If it was built outside the EU it must comply.
 
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Oz boat in pommyland

Why not offer her up in NZ. There is a very big market there but mostly around 30 foot. Saves the hassel of importing her to Europe. All potential buyers in the UK would want a VAT cert, and It is currently a buyers market everwhere.
 
I would think you would get more for the boat selling it in Australia than Europe. Boats are dear in Australia. The Euroropean economy is also much gloomier making luxury goods difficult to sell.
 
Yes, forget it. There is a glut of boats in Europe and doubt anybody would be interested in an old Australian boat. As others have already said you would pay duty and VAT, but the killer will be meeting the requirements of the RCD, particularly if it has the original engine which is unlikely to meet current EU standards, and would need testing anyway if it does not currently have certification. The boat will be treated as a new boat, despite its age as the requirement is related to the date the boat is placed on the EU market, not when it was made, unless it was originally made in the EEA.
 
Ludd said:
Problem starts before that---if you are Australian,you would be liable to pay VAT ,I think ,after 6 months in EEC. Then if you want to sell,the boat would have to be brought into compliance with EC standards----could be expensive.
You might be better to take your losses and buy in Europe(if that's where you're heading)
Click to expand...

We had a couple from Oz next to us in the yard last winter. They said the boat could be in EC for 18 months but they could only stay 6 months at a stretch so they disappeared down to Gib for a while. They and the boat were only visitors to the EC.

If an EC resident imports a boat, I think VAT is due immediately on entry to EC. Then of course there's the RCD compliance and, as others have said, it's a very competitive market with many cheap boats around.
 
I think the problem is twofold.

1) On entry into the EU, VAT would be payable on the value of the boat. That has to be paid; you say the boat is an Australian one, so it doesn't benefit from any of the exemptions. The amount varies depending on which country you enter at, but between 15% and 20% of the value of the boat.

2) In order to SELL the boat in the UK (or anywhere else in the EU), it has to be RCD (Recreational Craft Directive) compliant. A boat of this age built in the EU would be exempt, but as this is the first import, it would have to be made RCD compliant. As others have pointed out, this varies between being expensive and being impossible, especially for a boat not designed for the European market.

You ask, would I BUY such a boat. The answer is a definite "maybe" - but IF and ONLY IF the above two points were satisfactorily sorted out. No-one will buy a boat with VAT or RCD issues hanging over it. And then it would have to compete with many other similar boats that don't have such questions; it is a buyer's market right now. There will be issues such as "Can I get spare parts for the engine and other equipment?".

Finally, I expect the designer had Australian conditions in mind - which means hot, in general (yes, I know Tasmania is temperate - I got caught out by it!). So, is the vessel fitted with a heater? How well insulated is the boat? In other words, how suitable is the vessel for use in the cold waters of the north?
 
swanson37 said:
Howdy All,

I am contemplating bringing my yacht to europe as I may be forced to leave Australia and don't particularly want to sell my boat here. The yacht is an australian custom built boat by a well regarded Australian designer. She's an oldish boat (1985) and what with the strength of the australian dollar used boats are not selling that well in Australia at the moment. This is simply because new ones are so much cheaper to get hold of particularly US and European ones.

Getting the yacht to Europe is going to be pricey I know, but the figure for shipping etc could be easily close to the amount I would have to lop off the value of my boat here to sell her quickly. I don't like the idea of her languishing in her mooring with nobody to care for her and being at the mercy of the local boatyard when things "happen" to her. (a haul out and anti-foul could cost the better part of 2500 AUD).

I haven't "finished" with my boat yet, I don't intend by any means to sell her as soon as I get to Europe.

My key question though is would you buy an Australian built yacht in Europe...I know that this is a very broad question with a lot of unknowns, but I guess what I am trying to establish is would you even look at the boat if it was for sale within your price range or would you not bother if you had never heard of the manufacturer?

Looking forward to your responses....

Cheers
Swanson 37 (yep that is the boat)...
Click to expand...

Why not bareboat 'charter' it as an adventure holiday?
I'm sure there are many on this forum, who would love to do some long delivery legs, in order to get it to Europe/US, might take some time though while they holiday en-route.
 
I don't know the tax implications, but she looks a lovely boat. Have you considered sailing her to England? If you are here on a temporary basis and not selling her, then the tax situation may not be as others have suggested (I may very well be wrong, but perhaps it's worth an ask). If you plan to keep her for a while, then you could sail her here (any maybe live aboard) before taking her elsewhere, outside of the Reich (EC) to sell.
N
 
diapason said:
I don't know the tax implications, but she looks a lovely boat. Have you considered sailing her to England? If you are here on a temporary basis and not selling her, then the tax situation may not be as others have suggested (I may very well be wrong, but perhaps it's worth an ask). If you plan to keep her for a while, then you could sail her here (any maybe live aboard) before taking her elsewhere, outside of the Reich (EC) to sell.
N
Click to expand...

If the owner is a non EU resident he can keep the boat in the EU for up to 18 months without paying VAT (or complying with the RCD). However, there are significant restrictions on its use and it cannot be sold, but must leave the EU at the end of the period.

The only possibility of getting the boat into the EU legally and permanently is if the owner is a returning resident or taking up residency for the first time. So, if he emigrated to OZ from UK and acquired OZ residency, but is now returning to the UK to take up permanent residence, then he can apply for exemption for his personal chattels, which can include a boat. There are conditions, which are not too onorous and it would be possible after a period of time to sell the boat. Crucially, he must arrange this before he gets to the UK as he will still need to clear customs and get a certificate confirming the exemption.

Further information in HMRC VAT Notice No 8
 
diapason said:
I don't know the tax implications, but she looks a lovely boat. Have you considered sailing her to England? If you are here on a temporary basis and not selling her, then the tax situation may not be as others have suggested (I may very well be wrong, but perhaps it's worth an ask). If you plan to keep her for a while, then you could sail her here (any maybe live aboard) before taking her elsewhere, outside of the Reich (EC) to sell.
N
Click to expand...

Where outside the reich would you suggest?
 
alant said:
Do they count?
Click to expand...

I do hope so............. They are not part of the UK and, therefore not part of the Reich.

You may have seen the news reports earlier this week that they may declare total independence from the UK because of Boy George's 'meddling' in their tax affairs.

Incidentally, the CIs were part of the Duchy of Normandy in 1066. They can (and do) claim that England is their oldest possession.
N
 
diapason said:
I do hope so............. They are not part of the UK and, therefore not part of the Reich.

You may have seen the news reports earlier this week that they may declare total independence from the UK because of Boy George's 'meddling' in their tax affairs.

Incidentally, the CIs were part of the Duchy of Normandy in 1066. They can (and do) claim that England is their oldest possession.
N
Click to expand...

But not the world's most active market for old Australian boats!
 
Sell your Australian Boat in Australia. I bought a quality French boat and brought it back to the UK and when I tried to sell it I really struggled as nobody in the UK had heard of the make. I ended selling it for peanuts. Plus it was an old boat (1986) people dont want old boats.
 
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