Selling a Boat To Someone Outside The UK

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Baddox

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I have a boat for sale and have received an offer from someone in Scandinavia. A deposit was offered based on photo’s of the boat and copies of the paperwork.
The suggestion was bank transfer of the deposit followed by collection of the boat in three weeks time.
Having spoken to the prospective buyer, he seems genuine but I’m still cautious. Does anyone have any advice on how to handle payment?
I’ve used online bank transfers when buying a boat recently but can they be used for Euro to UK payments with the same speed and security?
 
Baddox said:
I have a boat for sale and have received an offer from someone in Scandinavia. A deposit was offered based on photo’s of the boat and copies of the paperwork.
The suggestion was bank transfer of the deposit followed by collection of the boat in three weeks time.
Having spoken to the prospective buyer, he seems genuine but I’m still cautious. Does anyone have any advice on how to handle payment?
I’ve used online bank transfers when buying a boat recently but can they be used for Euro to UK payments with the same speed and security?
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Not quite the same speed - the UK can use CHAPS or faster payments which are same day. In the EU different systems are used.

Best advice is to speak to your own bank when the funds are in and ask them for confirmation that the funds are in and can not be recalled by the remitting bank. Generally once they show as cleared funds on the previous day's entries then it is too late. (Rule of thumb)

The bigger risk is that this is some type of advanced fee fraud. So they send a deposit by standard transfer or a cheque which has to go for collection. Whilst that is going through the system, they ask you to pay some additional costs which they will add to the sale price and reimburse. So would you mind paying some to some delivery skipper etc who has some reasonable explanation for needing money in advance that they can't send.

Best case, you then pay the 3rd party who is in on it, the deposit is returned unpaid and the balance never shows up. Worst case, the send you some forged remittance for the full sum, the boat goes, the money is not there and you have forked put for the 3rd party costs and lost the boat.

So in short. Trust only the word of your own bank and get them to confirm that the funds are in.
Pay nothing out unless you are sure you have the money from them
Agree the handover the day after the funds arrive and check again with the bank before letting the boat go.
Or see if a broker will handle just the legal side of it for a reduced fee.
 
From my Norwegian internet bank I can transfer money to UK bank,
For an extra fee I can request fax confirmation to be sent by bank to receiver.
Security should be no concern, what speed do you get with transfers between UK bank.
 
Thanks for the replies.
The delay between receiving a deposit, and actually handing over the boat, documents, keys etc is reassuring because it should be long enough for the deposit funds to be cleared.
There is a broker’s office at the marina, I’ll call in tomorrow and ask if he could act as intermediary for the transaction. I wonder if that is likely to be a percentage or fixed fee.
 
Whyboats offered me a flat transaction only fee of £1,000 when they were selling my Turbo 36 should I have found the buyer.

Sound advice here. already Do not entertain any requests to 'help' them with their financial issues at any time throughout the sale process, and no boat issued until the Bank confirm the funds are clear with no possibility of recall. Do not accept a cheque, nor Credit Card that they can later dispute and reclaim their money, and this includes payments via Paypal as these can be recalled. Banks may offer beneficial use of the funds pending clearance, but then will immediately retrieve the funds if the cheque is than found to be dud, this can muddy the water as to whether a payment is cleared or not.

In my business we occasionally trade with dodgy places like Nigeria. We require funds paid into a separate Bank account without any credit facility then transferred out to our main account prior to issue of the goods paid for, and we will make them wait until we are absolutely sure the deal is genuine. All the while we are alert for scams and have had some close calls, but have not yet been caught out. A real professional scammer will study the subject of the product they are purporting to buy and will sound very genuine, but if they are scammers they are never as good as genuine buyers of a product where specialist knowledge is the norm, and boats certainly fall into this category. Some simple questions about the technicalities of the boat that a genuine boater would know can often flush out scammers who might agree that a Bilge Anchor or a Mast Skyhook are essential items for any inventory.
 
knuterikt said:
From my Norwegian internet bank I can transfer money to UK bank,
For an extra fee I can request fax confirmation to be sent by bank to receiver.
Security should be no concern, what speed do you get with transfers between UK bank.
Click to expand...

The problem is that how does the receiver know the confirmation is from an actual bank and isn't just a copy with the details changed. I'm sure any semi decent PC user given a copy of the genuine fax confirmation could draw up a convincing fake in less than an hour, especially if it's going to be faxed! I wouldn't know what a random foreign banks confirmation should look like, would you?

For a genuine payer there is no issue but the seller should assume the buyer is a fraudster until he is happy they aren't. That means waiting for your own bank to confirm all is in order.
 
The Euro equivalent of the UK's Payment system is SEPA. These are inter-accounts payments and can be made between Euro accounts usually for free. I can make an electronic transfer from my domestic Sterling account to my (Citibank) Euro account using the UK system, and then via SEPA to anyone in the EU. All online and all within the same day, and for free.
If you don't have a Euro account then they will have to use SWIFT to send to you. You will need to give them your bank account details and you bank's SWIFT and IBAN numbers. It takes a little longer but its fine. You just need to watch charges and exchange rate. Make sure you see the money before you hand them the keys.
 
Transfer of funds between bank accounts in euro land and UK happen all the time. I do it myself paying yard fees in Greece, using Caxton FX to do the transfer. It is every bit as secure as transfers between UK banks, just takes a day or so longer to compete.
As far as selling a boat is concerned, the offer of a deposit is sound. You can supply the buyer with your IBAN number (go to your online bank account and there'll be a button somewhere on the screen that you can click for the IBAN number) and that should be all he needs to make the payment (most of the interbank payment systems I've met will pull the SWIFT number from their databases once you give them the IBAN). Your bank will confirm the arrival of the funds: once they have done that, the money is yours. Good advice above regarding not getting trapped into a scam payout for 'expenses' etc.
As far as actually completing the transaction, all you need to do is agree the final price after survey and sea trial and get a further bank transfer for the outstanding balance. Once the bank has confirmed receipt, you can give the buyer a bill of sale (use the RYA/MCA model) and the keys. No need to involve a potentially expensive third party in the deal.
 
Last edited:
Baddox said:
I have a boat for sale and have received an offer from someone in Scandinavia. A deposit was offered based on photo’s of the boat and copies of the paperwork.
The suggestion was bank transfer of the deposit followed by collection of the boat in three weeks time.
Having spoken to the prospective buyer, he seems genuine but I’m still cautious. Does anyone have any advice on how to handle payment?
I’ve used online bank transfers when buying a boat recently but can they be used for Euro to UK payments with the same speed and security?
Click to expand...

You have to look at it from your buyer's point of view too? The deposit is a risk for them and there needs to be trust on both sides? Ideally you need someone in the middle who can receive the deposit and the final payment and be fair to both parties, esp if the final payment is to be made at the time of the handover. Depending on the scale of the purchase, the suggestion of using a well-known broker is a good one? Failing that, you could exchange references from your respective clubs? Or just dialogue enough to build up the trust needed?
 
You will also probably have to give them proof of de-registration in the UK so they can register it themselves elsewhere. Called a "Transcript of Closed Registry" available from the MCA for a fee - £25 from memory.

Once had to register an unregistered boat on SSR just so this could be obtained a day or two later.......
 
I'm not sure why there's so much mention of euros and the eurozone. Of the four Scandinavian countries, only Finland is in the eurozone (and Norway isn't even in the EU). Although the main issue is clearly reliable proof of transfer, it might help if the OP was slightly more specific about the buyer's country.
 
macd said:
I'm not sure why there's so much mention of euros and the eurozone. Of the four Scandinavian countries, only Finland is in the eurozone (and Norway isn't even in the EU). Although the main issue is clearly reliable proof of transfer, it might help if the OP was slightly more specific about the buyer's country.
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The OP mentions Euro to UK payments as being his concern, so perhaps the buyers Finish?
 
Cash on collection. Take buyer and go to bank, pay in cash and get them to verify bills are genuine. Sterling only, no euros or other funny money as the bank will screw you on exchange rates
 
PowerSlapper said:
Cash on collection. Take buyer and go to bank, pay in cash and get them to verify bills are genuine. Sterling only, no euros or other funny money as the bank will screw you on exchange rates
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Fine for small sums, try it with large sums and you can get investigated for money laundering. Banks have actually been known to refuse to accept large sums in cash, though they should do so provided you can demonstrate it is legitimate - ie with a bill of sale for a boat.

Also a foreign buyer may not be that happy about arranging collection of a large sum in cash and walking around with it. SWIFT transfer is usually the way to go.
 
One other scam to beware of is that the buyer accidentally 'overpays' you the deposit and asks for the difference back, he then cancels the initial down-payment and that's the last you will hear from him!!.

Also if the boat was for sale in pounds sterling the buyer should pay in pounds sterling so transfer/exchange costs are at his expense, I agree with others be 100% sure any transfer funds are cleared by the bank BEFORE you do anything else
 
Thanks for the input everyone.
The last boat that I sold 7 years ago had the scammers crawling out their holes with the usual “I’ll pay now and you can refund the extra,” etc. That’s one reason that I’m cautious. However, being a trusting person and having spoken to the prospective buyer a few times now and also via several e-mails I feel reassured.
I spoke to our marina’s broker today too, he is happy to handle the sale at a fee to be agreed when I call back tomorrow. He will hold the payment in his broker’s account for several days before the completion date to ensure the funds are cleared. For the buyer’s security, he will also confirm prior to the exchange that all the necessary documentation has been provided including a full inventory of what is included in the sale.
 
I had a boat for sale on Ebay, someone rang from Poland, asked for my Bank Details for Interbank Transfer, so I thought it was a scam. I said I wanted Cash. a week later they arrived from Krakow, paid cash and towed it back.
I should also ask What are you selling ?
 
jwilson said:
Fine for small sums, try it with large sums and you can get investigated for money laundering. Banks have actually been known to refuse to accept large sums in cash, though they should do so provided you can demonstrate it is legitimate - ie with a bill of sale for a boat.

Also a foreign buyer may not be that happy about arranging collection of a large sum in cash and walking around with it. SWIFT transfer is usually the way to go.
Click to expand...

Use Transferwise? It's a lot better than any bank exchange rates and you get confirmation of the state of the transfer. Been using the service since 2014. It's pretty good and easy. Also used Currencies Direct.
 
I used Transferwise to pay a small bill (£120) and have been very impressed with them re-communications and considerably cheaper (£2 fee) than my own bank. However, the money transfers aren't instantaneous.
 
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