Seller Surveys?

[wooslehunter]

So far I've had two boats surveyed. Both have failed on osmosis and other problems. It could be said that with boats of this age, 1974 and 1982 it's to be expected. However, the first was in the water. ON haul out at my expense it was found to be covered with blisters that the surveyor said must have been visible the last time the boat was antifouled. The brokerage sheet said stripped and epoxied. The owner must have known.

The other was covered with patches of epoxy paint under the antifouling. Some was falling off since it had been badly applied. In this case the owner may or may not have known but I find it unlikely he didn't.

So how about sellers having the survey doneprior to putting the boat on the market? Faults could be fixed or the price adjusted accordingly.

What this would do is provide a definitive status of the boat. Large things like osmosis, keel problems etc would be evident and both parties would know at the outset where they stood. It would make the whole process much easier and quicker. It would prove that the sellers are confident in their boats and are not trying to hide anything.

Boats with a good survey would sell fast and perhaps at a higher price.

If it's a case of sellers not wanting to pay for the surveys then the cost could be factored in to the selling price. If the buyer wants to see the survey, thenif the sale goes ahead, he agrees to add what it cost to the price. As a buyer I'd be happy with that.

Apart from perhaps surveyors missing out on surveying the same boat multiple times, I don't see any down sides to this idea.

Comments anyone?

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[bedouin]

Boat's don't usuallly "fail" surveys - it isn't a matter of pass or fail, but of pointing out problems or potential problems. A quick inspection of the boat should give a fair idea of how well the boat has been looked after, and so it is rare to get any really surprises in the survey.

If your reports are correct then neither boat had a major problem, so the survey should be used as a bargaining point to get a bit off the price, if the buyer won't move then you can walk away.

Seller surveys just can't work. If you don't pay the surveyor then you have no comeback if something is missed. What's more if the seller pays then the surveyor has a duty to the seller not to raise issues without strong evidence. Such a survey wouldn't be worth the paper it was printed on.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[wooslehunter]

Both boats were around the 10k mark and so I expected some problems. The minor ones I could have handled. I've also seen one boat in particular where it seemed very well cared for with loads of new gear. A previous survey less than a year old showed problems which had not been attended to, so the state of the boat is not always a good indicator.

Osmosis was the main problem with the first and the owner was not willing to move. Second boat had other problems as well. Both surveys recommended gelcoat stripping in the near future. Clearly the main problem with most osmosis cases is that it affects the re-sale. Most is not structural.

My point is that it's likely that both owners knew about the problems. Even though they were asked and told that I would not buy without a survey.

A seller survey would stop owners covering up problems.

Of course there may be surveyors who could be bought. The surveyor works for whoever pays him. Hence, a buyer may need to have his own survey done. Having said that of course any surveyor caught covering things up would soon lose his livelyhood and therefore it wouldn't happen.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[butler]

osmosis, so what, get the price reduced, buy the boat, stop worrying, osmosis is overrated, what say you chaps, chris

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[bob_tyler]

Has anybody ever heard of a boat sinking or leaking through osmosis? Does it matter that much?

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[bedouin]

I suspect from your comments that this is your first boat that you're looking to buy?

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Gunfleet]

<osmosis is overrated> Depends if you're buying or selling ;-)

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[wooslehunter]

I totally agree that from a structural point of view osmosis is totally over rated. However, from a resale point of view it is not. The number of older boats waiting to be sold for years only goes to prove that. Some are in a good state and some are not. I suspect that some of the comments above come from owners who's boats have or have had a problem. In my case, neither owner was prepared to move.

My post was really about seller surveys and my personal experiences were used to illustrate the reasons. Let's get away from the specifics of my experiences and address the original discussion.

Does anyone have any constructive comments on seller surveys?

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[FlyingSpud]

It would be relatively simple for surveyors to agree to make their surveys assignable and for the seller to assign the survey to the buyer on completion of purchase, this would get round the problem of the buyer not being able to sue on the sellers survey.

Also I don’t think there is a problem about surveyor’s covering up for their client. If a surveyor states that it is his honest opinion and deals with all relevant issues, then he has to stand by that.

The problem is rather more how long the survey lasts. If I am selling my boat and have a survey prepared but then fail to find a buyer for 9 months; do I have to keep buying a new survey? And if so how often? Once a month/three months/six months? At least, by waiting until a purchaser is found, only one survey is needed.

I’ve bought and sold boats. I can see the argument on both sides. Its annoying to pay for a survey and then find there was something that the buyer a trying to hide, it would also be annoying to pay for a survey for a purchaser and then find out they were not that serious.


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Heckler]

exactly, 20 yr old cars

have some rust and need sorting, yachts have osmosis, so what, fix it like you fix rust.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Guest]

Seller surveys ... No show !

What seller si going to pay out serious money to then see his boat sit around not selling ?? How does he recoup the cost of the survey - especially if it reveals problem areas ?

Buyer prepared to repay cost ? Some may - but many wouldn't. I would also say that many would be sceptical of the true unbiased nature of the report.

I know of many instances of favourable reports written by surveyors ---- so how can you guarantee it ? I also know of reports written where the surveyor has benefited from the refit resulting ...

Sorry but I think the buyer should undertake the apointment of survey - not least because of the number of casual 'buyers' out there !! Or should we call them 'dreamers' ?????


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[david_e]

Nice idea but unless they become mandatory, and there is no chance of that, then would never really work.

Seller has survey done - all well and good - sells boat no problem, gets good price everyone happy.

Seller has survey done - not good report - hides report and then puts boat on market - lots of expense for buyer after buyer - only surveyor is happy.

Next time you go to look, ask lots of questions about the history and associated paperwork such as receipts, insurance surveys etc. Negotiate around lift out and survey costs etc - if buyer says boat is sound then say to him that if it gets a poor survey then he refunds lift out costs and buys assigned survey from you fo 50%. I did it recently and it worked, there are more boats for sale than genuine buyers so you have some bargaining power, and don't forget that the seller is probably buying another boat and can't move without selling his.

One other tip, before you go, ask on here about the type of boat and you should get some good pointers to lok out for.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[sailbadthesinner]

whilst it would be nice
it is far removed from the main thrust of Caveat Emptor.
Essentially you have two parties trying to strike a deal that is favourable to them.What is acheived most often is a compromise some way from their ideal outcomes. Either side could propose rules that would favour them .
To carry your logic further why not have unwithdrawable offers???? Which you will probably think a wonderful idea when you come to sell the boat.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>I can't walk on water, but I do run on Guinness</font color=red>