Sell up and Sail

[Guest]

I'm sure a lot of you have read this book - its got a lot of useful information in it.

But Jesus - can you imagine spending any longer than 2 minutes with these people - you'd go bonkers. It'd be like being stuck with Bernard Ingham and that woman from the 50's with the posh voice - Joyce Grenfell that's it.

"Don't do that Geoffrey darling, you know it'll make you go blind" or some such.

Geoff W

 

[sailbadthesinner]

the first time i read it
i was on holiday. And i kept on putting the book down and having a bloody good rant at anyone who would listen because i felt they had more hobby horses than hamleys. Governement, Tax, Flotillas, supermarkets

on reflection and a bit of second read i have revised my views of them. their aims are different they are looking to escape in one way and blend in with the locals in another. hence the advice to sit in the corner knitting at the local taverna rather than getting pissed.

i can see how they can get pissed off with the white fleets of flots coming in and changing ( they would say ruining) areas. i do however still feel that they would sooner the locals still all drove donkeys round the fields and eeked a living rather than open up profitable tavernas and buying mercs. nt sure the locals would agree. the simple poor life may make for better scenery but give me a taverna any day.
i do dip in now and then. there is as you say alot of valid stuff. i know a few liveaboards quite well and have met loads on me travels. One thing they all have in common is they all have some views that are fanatical and they are all *coughs pauses * a little odd???????? sorry colin but you know i mean in a nice way. the scary thing is i increasingly agree with them.

my original plan to sell up and sail was basically recreate me chartering. beer it round the med for a few years. i know see that is not possible znd not as rewarding or challenging. so i will need the free anchorages the cheap berths. i would probably have a cheap shower block than a posh marina. iremember going to a place in turkey where the shower was outside 100m behind the bar with a bammboo blind to land and an open 180 vista of the sea. fab. i bet there is a concrete block there now.

to answer your first question. i would go sailing with them cos i have learn't loads from the book and imagine i would learn loads more. i would just have to bite me tongue a few times. ;-)



Come on brain.get this over and i can go back to killing you with beer

 

[ecudc]

Cruel.

I agree about the book though. I have it constantly beside my bed to read when I get really fed up with work and start planning that round the world trip.

And a lady who puts a bath tub on the boat gets my vote anyday. I liked some of the suggestions from my thread ages ago. Especially turning the cockpit into a tub. Could even turn it into a jacuzzi with a little work. So thanx for those.

 

[bedouin]

Hold On

Bill is a regular and valued contributor to this and other forums. He has a wealth of experience, his postings are always well-informed and often witty and highly amusing.

I regard using this forum as a means of making an unprovoked personal attack on another contributor to be very bad form.

 

[tcm]

Published and be damned

OBN for you Bedouin? Bill publishes his forthright views in a book. Others disagree and publish here. Problem? None of t6he views are quite as odd as some of bill's views, who condemns all Italians as congentially criminal if I remeber correctly. Surely correcting the form of others is the very worst of all? IMHO of course...

 

[Bergman]

Not read the book so can't comment on that but no-one who voluntarily devotes the time expense and trouble to go sailing at all can be entirely "normal" - except me of course.

Surely the whole point of sailing off is to avoid people you don't like, tax men, lawyers, car dealers etc - take your pick.

If you don't want to spend 5 mins with Bill then don't, boats are mobile, go somewhere else - no problem.

Agree about Bill's contributions on this forum, entertaining and informative - even if you disagree with them.

 

[bedouin]

Re: Published and be damned

Oh Bill has some VERY forthright views - and I probably don't agree with most of them - but he is quite entitled to hold them. There is a great difference between disagreeing with someone's opinions (wouldn't this forum be boring if we didn't), and attacking the person themselves.

IMHO Geoff's comments cross the line from what is acceptable (i.e. disagreeing with his opinions) to what is unacceptable - making a personal attack on Bill himself.

 

[Guest]

Er \'ang on a minute

Are you saying Bill Cooper posts here?

Oh sh*t

Geoff

 

[Guest]

Precisely my point

He said - frantically rowing back upstream.

I did in fact say the book was good but the way it was written - the style - could be a bit overpowering - and I used 2 fairly well known types to illustrate the point - I thought with a little wit.

In fact - at one point Laurel - in discussing the contents of the small bin by the side of the toilet - and the way young children like to poke around in it - (know what I mean?) - says something like "well thats the way young children learn after all". It remindend me of that Joyce Grenfell thing where she's teaching a class of children and little Johnny is picking his nose or something. Joyce says something along the lines of "Johnny darling don't do that or your nose will stay like that if the wind changes direction". I could just here the tone of voice.

Bill on the other hand does (as others have mentioned) come across as a bit...well...just sometimes... grumpy and well....self opinionated. I thought Bernard Ingham seems a bit like that.

Anyway, I'll go back to my original point - the book is good and I'm glad I've read it. I'll bet Bill and Laurel are pleased I bought it!

Anyway Bill and Laurel - if I went over the top - I'm sorry!

By the way SWMBO says I'm self opinionated - so he's in good company

Geoff

 

[MarkR]

Geoff,

Just finished the book this week and would agree that the way the book is written makes the excellent level of detail difficult to separate from the liberal hobby horse ranting - which, to give Bill his due, he does own up to quite frequently in the text.

Bill cannot be classed as simply anti-Italian, at various times in the book he is quite clearly anti-Green, anti-Pink-Wooly, anti-French -"they dont like anything written in any language but their own"-, dubious about Americans buying rifles and submachine guns for a BVI cyuise or "borrowing" tenders, anti-RYA, etc.

However with each rant he cites examples of why he has adopted the position - more often than not because the rantee has
a) prohibited them acheiving their aim of freely moving from place to place with minimum (or prefreabley no) bureaucracy b) extracted a Shylock-style pound of flesh for a minimal service
c) basically been pretty petty without understanding the true impact of actions


In summary, neither my favourite style of book nor my idea of long term cruising (on this latter its most likely I'm wrong). However, glad I read it and its highly unlikely I would be invited (or would accept an invitation) to sail with them


Mark

 

[bedouin]

Re: Er \'ang on a minute

He certainly does - (using the name Bill_Cooper). He's not been around much recently - apparently because of the high cost of internet access in Greece. When he's around he is a great asset to the forum.

 

[Guest]

Another thing about Joyce Grenfell

I've just had a bath and been thinking about this. I've been a bit too defensive.

Joyce Grenfell happens to be a much loved English actress. Number 1.

Number 2 - Bernard Ingham less so - unless your a rabid high Tory.

Bill can be pretty sniffy about whole swathes of people. I wonder whether he considers their feelings or worries about making unprovoked attacks on his own personal forum that nobody can reply to. Unlike here. If he's going to dish it out, he's got to take it as well.

There are even others on this forum who can be pretty sniffy about the likes of me - a humble Jeanneau owner - ahhh. But I can take it.

So, with head held high - I'm off to make a cup of tea for the Wife.


Geoff

 

[wishbone]

I’ve read it a couple of times and had me dreams..zzzzzzzz. But err indoors said no way Pedro ! Which has just reminded me. Have been avin trouble wiv me eyes, small print you know, I’ve been reading this forum and wondering who this Brian bloke is getting killed wiv beer! Back to Pedro, I called to the opticians today nice bloke from Madrid said “it’s me age!” ( in a Manuel sort of accent) I need stronger bifocals for reading, so I’ve adjusted the screen size and now I know who this Brian bloke is! I’m going to see the surgeon next week for a transplant............

Wishbone

 

[webcraft]

Re: Is this an \'unacceptable personal attack\'?

Haven't we all had personal attacks made on us at one time or another in these fora?

Isn't that part of the joy of post-pub posting?

Or are some personal attacks OK and others beyond the pale?

I'm confused [again . . . ], but I do know that most of the long distance cruising couples whose stories I have read have strong views and verge on the eccentric in many areas. The joy is, they would be great fun to meet with and party hard with for a day or week in port - then before we begin to get on each others' nerves we simply sail away - to different destinations on a different timescale.

That is what I imagine as one of the fundamental joys of long term cruising.

<font color=blue>Nick</font color=blue> -

(post-pub)

 

[wishbone]

Re: Is this an \'unacceptable personal attack\'?

For all that I’ve read, in most cases it is to escape the Tax Man The VAT Man etc. etc. a self sufficient life style on sea rather than land (more freedom) and total adventure, the cheaper this can be achieved the longer it last’s! The whole neighbour thing I can see their point

Wishbone

 

[tcm]

Re: Bumlicking bedouin

No, there isn't a great deal of difference between disagreeing with someone's view,s and a "personal attack" - if that's what you call the original post, imho. I imagine Bill Cooper can fight his own fights if he needs to. The original post said he couldn't imagine spending too much time with them, that they sounded joyce grenfellish. I bet Bill would take that as a compliment.

 

[AndrewB]

I can't say I got that from the book, but some of Bill's postings here were certainly intemperate and I can well understand why you might get that impression.

Surprise, surprise, in real life Laurel and he are the most pleasant company, very socially skilled and respectful of all views on sailing from anyone with a genuine interest.

Its odd how one's preconception of people, based on their postings, shapes up to what they are like in real life. I've met quite a number from this board over the last five years. Some are just as I imagined ... others couldn't be more different.

 

[sailbadthesinner]

i upset my optician by last time going in and saying
these glasses donot work any more

he replied
the glases are fine it your eyes that have got worse

Come on brain.get this over and i can go back to killing you with beer

 

[warrior40]

This book is a load of old rubbish, and I can't believe that its still in print and that some people are still buying it..!

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Its funny I have friends in greece Keith and Dianna Fenwich, dear keith is now dead who always stated that most of the things stated in that book was information given to the Coopers in discusions over meal and wine !!!
cheers bob t

Bob T