Sell up and sail - Yesterday's strategy?

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The last day of the year seems to be an appropriate moment to navel gaze about how one might spend more time sailing. The "Sell up and Sail" strategy, once promulgated (by the Pardies?) now seems like a strategy from the past. In years gone by I have toyed with the idea but now I think it is not the way forward. With the world racked with uncertainty and pensions fast evaporating with self-provision being the name of the game it seems "Sell up and Sail" now reads "Let out and Sail". Of the longer term cruisers who I know that did sell up and sail they now find themselves regretting that strategy. Was it ever the right strategy? Maybe the world hasn't changed but its me being increasingly risk-averse as I get older? A chewing of the cud on the subject would be appreciated.

Happy New Year when it comes in just over twelve hours from now.

Rob
 
This is what we have come up with. To start we have our boat in Edinburgh, I work away during the week and only get back on the last flight form LHR on a Friday to return on the last flight on a Sunday. Given weather, the usual list of things to do when we are together and of course the small issue of weather we are moving our boat to the South of France. We have waited until we were offered a berth in a public section of a marina and this keeps the cost down to under 5500 Euros a year for berthing. Our boat will go down in early Apr 14 and we will spend the following on her: Easter, 2 weeks in May, a long weekend in June, July and Aug, another 2 weeks in September and a final long weekend in October. I might also get a week in July solo. We can both fly into Nice airport and getting to the marina then takes about 30 mins. We will get more time on board, much better weather and nights in different locations. Our costs will increase, not too sure by how much, but we have offset two big holidays we have each year with 2 by 2 weeks on board. Fingers crossed it might even work.
 
Back then most people generally had to sell the house to fund the boat, and then relied on their company pension to live on.

Times have somewhat changed as you say. These days a lot of people can afford to have the boat and also keep the house, and on the basis that pensions are in the toilet for all but public sector workers and the lucky few with final salary schemes of healthy pension pots, the only sensible strategy has to be to rent the house (or sell the big house and buy 2 smaller ones to rent), and use this to live on.

I guess at least it also means that you don't find yourselves as reluctant live-aboards, as you always have a house to come back to, and something to leave to your kids.
 
Rent out and sail must surely have been / is a better option IF you have the capital to buy a boat at the outset - something that can be achieved by living aboard in the UK whilst still working for a few years. Given the much larger house / boat price ratio today this is probably easier now than ever before.
 
Certainly would not sell up and sail.

Agree with the comments about self provision and uncertainty.

Way to go is to either rent out original home, or to sell and replace with 2 smaller flats, you can let both while your health holds and you are comfortable on board for 12 months, then as you age you can use one property as a base.
 
I don't think it is you being risk averse, it is just being realistic and pragmatic.

Leaving any capital in a bank account is likely to end up with it losing real terms value as interest rates are well below the rate of inflation. Renting out a property will give you a regular income albeit reduced by a managing agents fees but that can increase as market conditions improve. In addition, you are not losing the increase in the capital value of your house which is likely to happen if you believe what the papers are saying (a big if I know). So all in all it seems to me the "Rent out and sail away" model seems to be more sensible in current economic times.

Happy new year and lets hope its a great one for sailing :)
 
mcanderson said:
This is what we have come up with. To start we have our boat in Edinburgh, I work away during the week and only get back on the last flight form LHR on a Friday to return on the last flight on a Sunday. Given weather, the usual list of things to do when we are together and of course the small issue of weather we are moving our boat to the South of France. We have waited until we were offered a berth in a public section of a marina and this keeps the cost down to under 5500 Euros a year for berthing. Our boat will go down in early Apr 14 and we will spend the following on her: Easter, 2 weeks in May, a long weekend in June, July and Aug, another 2 weeks in September and a final long weekend in October. I might also get a week in July solo. We can both fly into Nice airport and getting to the marina then takes about 30 mins. We will get more time on board, much better weather and nights in different locations. Our costs will increase, not too sure by how much, but we have offset two big holidays we have each year with 2 by 2 weeks on board. Fingers crossed it might even work.
Click to expand...
I'm sure you've thought it through and chosen the option to suit you, but for 6 weeks on a boat in the Med, wouldn't it be cheaper and more flexible to charter?
No maintenance, insurance and mooring costs.
 
Bobc said:
Back then most people generally had to sell the house to fund the boat, and then relied on their company pension to live on.

Times have somewhat changed as you say. These days a lot of people can afford to have the boat and also keep the house, and on the basis that pensions are in the toilet for all but public sector workers and the lucky few with final salary schemes of healthy pension pots, the only sensible strategy has to be to rent the house (or sell the big house and buy 2 smaller ones to rent), and use this to live on.

I guess at least it also means that you don't find yourselves as reluctant live-aboards, as you always have a house to come back to, and something to leave to your kids.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with any of this, but I think what's right will depend on a person's specific circumstances.

If you have no kids to leave the money to, why leave a large portion of your estate tied up in property? Obviously it depends on individual circumstances, but selling up may provide the opportunity to leave work early (rental income on its own may not be sufficient to enable this), sail while this continues to appeal and then rent thereafter - perhaps all over the world rather than at a single address?
 
Houleaux said:
If you have no kids to leave the money to, why leave a large portion of your estate tied up in property?
Click to expand...

Good observation and apposite to my circumstances. Property is offering better yields than cash and a lower risk than equities so, as circumstances are currently, I believe it represents a good investment for those planning to go sailing in their sixth decade of life. But I don't plan to drop dead owning a big house, that is madness.
 
Lakesailor said:
I'm sure you've thought it through and chosen the option to suit you, but for 6 weeks on a boat in the Med, wouldn't it be cheaper and more flexible to charter?
No maintenance, insurance and mooring costs.
Click to expand...

A v quick look on Google suggests charter costs for a 34ft yacht will be in the range EURO1200pw to EURO2100pw. So, given the amout he is suggesting he will be using his boat, maybe its not so clear which is the cheaper option?

[Plus, you dont get to use your own boat.]
 
Robih said:
Property is offering better yields than cash and a lower risk than equities so, as circumstances are currently, I believe it represents a good investment for those planning to go sailing in their sixth decade of life. But I don't plan to drop dead owning a big house, that is madness.
Click to expand...
Agreed. If you can afford to give up work and keep the house, that has to be the way to go. But, if not..........
 
Pinnacle said:
A v quick look on Google suggests charter costs for a 34ft yacht will be in the range EURO1200pw to EURO2100pw. So, given the amout he is suggesting he will be using his boat, maybe its not so clear which is the cheaper option?

[Plus, you dont get to use your own boat.]
Click to expand...

We have thought about the Sunsail etc type options, but we have owned our boat for 5 years and she is just that - ours. We have our stuff on board can go where we want when we want. For us it was a simple decision. Besides this was about how to spend more time on your boat wasn't it?

Longer term we wish to buy a flat in the area and retire. However I have another few more years to do before that is realistic. Then again I might win Euromillions tonight and then all bets are off!
 
Perhaps it's best to return from your cruise in your 70s without much in the way of housing. If you then go into a home, they will sell your property to pay for your care. If you have no property, they do it for free. So, you may be just saving your property for the government to sequester somewhere near the end.
Just a thought.
 
We have lived aboard for the past 14 years. Own no property, was a blessed relief when we got rid of the house. You only realise once it's gone what a pain in the proverbial it is. We are completely free to go where we want.......do what we want......
My guess is that home owners have a far shorter cruising life than non-owners. Maybe its a mental thing, those that want the security of property never really let go and fully embrace the cruising lifestyle? We know many sailors who have lived on their boats until the end of their lives, happy to the last. The stress of dealing with maintenance issues both ashore and afloat is not inconsiderable, and dealing from afar is a nightmare.
The expectation of high standards of living is, IMHO, unsustainable in the long run if you try and do it all.
Our life is reasonably frugal,simple and thoroughly rewarding.
 
Gerry said:
Maybe its a mental thing, those that want the security of property never really let go and fully embrace the cruising lifestyle?

The expectation of high standards of living is, IMHO, unsustainable in the long run if you try and do it all.
.
Click to expand...

I'm sure there is a lot of truth in the first statement above, if one has a return ticket then one is not fully committed. I don't understand what you mean by the second point above, would you care to expand this point please?
 
Robih said:
I'm sure there is a lot of truth in the first statement above, if one has a return ticket then one is not fully committed. I don't understand what you mean by the second point above, would you care to expand this point please?
Click to expand...

Sorry trying to cook supper at the same time.

What I was trying to say is that the expectation of owning a home, a yacht, stuff and living high on the hog has become the norm rather than the exception. To have it all seems to be to be unsustainable in the longer term.The investment in a good cruising boat is probably as much as most can manage without incurring the excess debt required in house mortgages and so forth. By focusing on the boat we can afford to maintain a good standard of living rather than spreading ourselves thinly across land and sea...

Clearer?
 
Gerry said:
We have lived aboard for the past 14 years. Own no property, was a blessed relief when we got rid of the house. You only realise once it's gone what a pain in the proverbial it is. We are completely free to go where we want.......do what we want......
My guess is that home owners have a far shorter cruising life than non-owners. Maybe its a mental thing, those that want the security of property never really let go and fully embrace the cruising lifestyle? We know many sailors who have lived on their boats until the end of their lives, happy to the last. The stress of dealing with maintenance issues both ashore and afloat is not inconsiderable, and dealing from afar is a nightmare.
The expectation of high standards of living is, IMHO, unsustainable in the long run if you try and do it all.
Our life is reasonably frugal,simple and thoroughly rewarding.
Click to expand...
Agree 100%.
House went 8 years ago. Really don't miss it at all, especially the feeling of being chained to one particular geographical location on the planet.
Though maybe not for everyone. But much is made of what might happen in the future. So far the worst things in life don't seem to actually happen outside of the imagination ;)
 
Interesting stuff. I'm 47 and SWIMBO has no interest in a cruising life. So unless things go wrong at home its not really ever going to happen for me. We have 5 kids, some on in their early 20's and the youngest is 13. I run my own business and deal with the ups and downs as they come.

I see NO possibility of saving anywhere like enough for a pension that would be anything other than monetary poverty. I should say that personally I think I'm life rich, but that is a different topic. It is interesting that the people I know who retired early, but with good final salary pensions, find themselves unable to afford anything like the lifestyle they wanted / expected. More time = more expense and a pension taken at 55 or 60 simply doesn't last for 30 years of good living.

So, my plan is simple, I don't plan to retire! I plan to change my occupation so that it delivers just enough money to enable me to do the things I want to do. My thinking is that income is longer term than savings or pension payments. That's not to say I don't want to or that I don't save for a pension, its that I just don't see me wanting to stop work and have a frugal lifestyle. I've tried poor it doesn't make me happy!

So to the OP, why are you working so hard to save for retirement, when you actually want to be sailing? Can you not find a job that you can do part time or even in shot bursts, that pays what you need to enable you to keep your home and your boat and have enough time to enjoy them both? Can you work remote and perhaps sail for a few week's then tie up and work for a couple? Technology today has made a lot more occupations transportable.

I know one couple who having retired as teachers, work in Marks and Spencer's in the Winter months (about 3 over the Christmas period) so that they can caravan across Europe and go on cruises all summer long. 3 months work, 3 months seeing family and 6 months doing what they want to do. They plan to keep doing this until 75+ and then review it.

I know another who changed from being a solicitor to being a consultant. She now works one in four weeks and instead of a salary charges per job (at consultant rates). She can work at whatever time of day and from wherever she and her laptop can get internet. Not really stable, but it really helps prop up the lifestyle.

Of course if health goes, then the money goes, but so does the need to earn it to pay for hobbies!
 
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