Self tacker and roller furling

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SimonMackenzie

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I mainly use a self tacking jib on my MGC27. I am thinking of fitting a roller reefing system such as Furlex but sailmakers have suggested that jib would not set well when reefed as sheeting angle cannot be adjusted. If this was a real problem, I probably wouldn't make the change. I am aware however that there are other boats such as Hanse which do have both roller reefing and self tacker so would be interested in any feedback (someone suggested that they reef main rather than jib?). Look forward to comments.

Simon
 
Well much depends on how the self tacking works. If it is a system with a traveller track and car across the foredeck or a rope bridle with a tackle to the clew of the sail then it would not be possible to get correct sheeting position for the jib if it was partly furled.(reefed)
If however you had the jib on a boom then it would be simple to have an adjustable outhaul on a track on the boom. You probably don't have a jib boom however. They seem to be only fitted to cutter rig boats though I like the idea.

If however you have just a track and tackle to the clew. A roller furling would be ideal as a way to stow the jib. You probably have such a small jib that reefing of the main would be far more useful. It is just that you could not use the jib properly if it was half furled (reefed). olewill
 
High tony. There are 2 possibilities for barber hauler. 1 each side would effectively make it non self tacking or 1 on centre line which would tend to pull the clue in to the middle of the boat unless it was on (another) traveller system. So I can't see how it could work in practice. olewill (who really knows very little about self tacking jibs.)
 
Simon

I have a MGC 27 with ther self tacker and roller furling, I was like this when I purchased the boat so I dont know who cut the sails but originally they were sanders anyway where the single sheet is attached thery have three positions which allows you to adjust sheeting angle enough to cover 99% of situations the only problem I have is on a run when the high aspact ratio of the jib combined with the selof tacker just wount let the sail fly far enough out in this situation I just tie on a normal sheet feed it through a block on the toe rail so the angle is better and leave the self tacker sheet slack, For extended down wind we tend to put the Chute up.

Regards
Mike
 
but is the Hanse system roller reefing or roller furling? I always guessed its the latter ie just a means of putting the sail to bed - reefing being done with the main.

I'd be inclined to try it anyway. At the worst you have the convenience of being able to furl the sail away - I assume that you currently have to stow the sail below. Any setting problem as you reef the foresail will be gradual so you may well find you can get away with a reasonable amount of reefing anyway, particularly if the boat is mainsail driven. And it shouldnt be a great problem - if you think about it, on a "normal" boat as you furl the genoa you move the car forward and slightly outboard relative to the forestay. With the self tacker you would lose the ability to tension the leach but should be able to keep the angle at the luff

Having said all the above, I'm no expert and the sailmaker is supposed to be one.

Changing the subject a bit I may be about to change boat and I'm thinking of one with a self tacker - winches getting hard to grind. How do you find it? Is it frustrating on a reach / run? What are the pro/cons?
 
I have a self tacker with car on a curved track on my Omega34 plus roller furling. there are 5 clew rings on the clew plate to adjust the sheet lead but like Miken I use a barberhauler/second sheet when off the wind to control the twist as this easier.

While my sail in theory reefable I have always used it fully in/or out and reefed the main. When 3 reefs is needed I can change down to a hank on self tacking hard wind jib that goes on a emergency forestay (or eventually the storm jib)
 
I guess the logical position is: you reef a foresail when winds are 20+k so must have pretty fine control over the sheet angle to keep the sail working. I have a roller reef but a good side deck car and line back to the cockpit for fine adjustment, and can maintain sail well into the breeze.

If you can't arrange that, and barber haulers may not be an adequate alternative, it really is a case of having two sails - one to be raised for stiffer conditions.

PWG
 
A mate of mine has a Hanse and as far as I remember there is a control line for the jib that goes up to a block at the lower X-tree level and down to the foot of the mast. It might be worth looking at one before deciding.
 
We have a Hunter Channel 323 with a self tacking jib with roller reefing. This works on the track principle and no problems with setting except if it is really sheeted in hard, it sometimes needs to be released slightly to run across the track when tacking. As far as the reefing side is concerned, in reality, because it is a pretty small sail anyway, it can be left out full size up to say F6/F7 with the reefing being done on the main so I suppose this is more of a roller furling than roller reefing set-up.
 
There are two separate things to consider here.

Firstly, irrespective of any reefing, self tacker jibs tend to set badly when eased off to go downwind. The top of the sail twists off and doesn't pull. One solution is a "barber hauler" - an extra rope pulling the sheet outwards and downwards to reduce twist. Alternatively furl and set an asymetric spinnaker, or make a coffee and forget about it.

Roller furling then adds a further challenge, as the clew of the jib moves higher and further away from the track. Whether or not this is a significant problem depends on how well the geometry has been set up. If the track is positioned at the correct height relative to the angle of the forestay, the sheeting angle will remain OK as it is furled. Ideally you probably want a bit more twist in strong winds anyway to open the slot with the mainsail.
So overall may be fine
 
You would do well to listen to your sailmakers.
In heavy winds a badly set jib suffers, and degrades a boat's performance.
Better to improve your mainsail-reefing: refine your reefing procedure and equipment, develop your technique and give youself plenty of practice.
As the wind gets up, the boat will balance better with a properly-set self-tacker and smaller main and you will enjoy the sailing more.
 
Thanks for all the feedback, some of it on how we feel about self tackers which I know divides opinion. The MGC set up is based on a track just in front of the mast but the sheet leads back to cockpit from the outer ends rather than going up the mast as the Hunter and Hanse set ups. Works well unless really over sheeted.
As Miken will know the original design was based on the self tacker and is pretty generously canvassed. So whilst keen racers have 150% genoas I hardly use the genoa as get good performance in all but the lightest winds with the self tacker. Yes, as Matelot says you lose a bit when wind is free as you get more twist than you want. The upside is that tacking is so easy that I find that I sail (often single handed or lightly crewed) when others motor.
So back to the furler question. I did talk to a Hanse owner and it seems that may well do as suggested: ie use more as furler and basically control sail area by reefing main.
As regards shheting angle if reefed, I have replaced the original Sanders sail but the new one still has 3 hole bar at clew so it is possible to adjust angle slightly. Its not easy under way however.
So still thinking because as well as buying furler have to recut sail which will not just cost money but lose some area. But for storage, convenience etc it is very tempting.

Simon
 
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