Self Steering options?

[KellysEye]

Slightly off topic but since radar was mentioned...
A cautionary tale - we usually only switch ours on when we see lights we can't figure out. Bearing in mind we don't have it on often, on one in two overnight passages we see lights from vessels that give no radar signature at all!! One was a yacht that crossed about 50 yards in front but I suspect most are wooden fishing boats.

 

[Gerry]

Yes I agree that caution is vital BUT well out in the Atlantic we found ours fantastic and picked up anything that was around.

 

[LadyInBed]

"No one has mentioned the noise issue-do you really want the wurring and click clicking at night from the a/pilot-unless it is a super expensive super smooth jobby)"

I don't consider my AH ST5000+ to be a super expensive super smooth jobby.
The linear drive is right below my bunk and I don't hear a thing when it is working. Maybe that with a ketch, it is easier to balance the boat so that it doesn't have to work too hard.

 

[TigaWave]

I also never heard my ST6000 linear drive just behind the plywood bulkhead at the foot of the bunk, even down wind surfing th ewhole system anticipated well and the mechanics never had to work too hard.

 

[charles_reed]

Correcting misapprehensions

A properly installed autopilot, especially on a tiller quadrant, is almost noiseless. Even my 4000ST can only be heard when below in the aft cabin, and that's due to not having a sound-insulation layer in the base-extension.

Regarding power consumption, the 24-hour allowance I have to make is about 18ah, rather less than the tricolour masthead light.
This is more than catered for by the wind generator and solar panel.

For accurate sailing an electric autopilot is considerably safer and more accurate than any wind pilot (far more so than a Hydrovane which does not compare with Aries, Monitor or Pacific for accuracy) An electric autopilot is the only one you can use when motor-sailing or motoring.

Having both I'd still recommend an electric autopilot over any windvane, unless you're making nothing but transoceanic voyages.

It's possibly significant that NO offshore single handed racers use anything but electric autopilots.

 

[hrsailor]

Agree you need both. We also have a Windpilot pacific plus (wind vane with direct auxillary rudder) on our 13m heavy boat. There is no line to the wheel. Provides a back up rudder, allow you to lock the main rudder, so less wear and tear on the main rudder. We are very happy wth the kit. Read Peter Forthmanns book. He is also very helpful with setting up or problems.
Brian

 

[Toutvabien]

Thanks to everybody who has contributed to the discussion. As the thread has been developing I have been doing other reading on some of the notions being put forward.

I am now leaning towards a installing a Hydrovane or Windpilot Pacific Plus and leave the 3000 on for motoring in calm conditions.

Hopefully Southampton IBS will offer the opportunity to complete the research and maybe the purchase.

 

[phanakapan]

I have just bought Peter Forthmann's book today, 'cos I'm just about to make an offer on a 13m steel longkeeler; and on first reading I'm inclined to go for a Windpilot Pacific Plus- and apparently a cheapy Autohelm 800 or 1000 can be added for when there is little or no wind. Any thoughts on this?

 

[Sea Devil]

I had a Windpilot (although the smaller one with only one rudder) which I brought new from Peter at the Amsterdam boat show a few years ago.) It is an excellent bit of equipment although I found the plastic bearings swelled for some reason and made it less efficient - Peter offered to give me new ones FOC.

For the next boat in which I circumnavigated I fitted a Hydrovane in Gibraltar. It has fewer moving parts than a Windpilot and is more sensitive because of the bigger vane and 'less moving parts'. The Hydrovane would still steer my boat with only 3knots apparent over the stern. This is considerably better than the windpilot and a million times better than the Aeries that was my first 'wind' self steering gear.

I think the combination you are thinking of is fine. If you do find the autopilot is not up to the job then later you can add a stronger one - you will always have the 'wind' self steering to take the pressure of helming what ever happens.

Michael

 

[Ariadne]

Not having read the entire thread, I'll add my bit.

Go for the wind vane, we have both (an Aries and a Simrad/Robertson AP22 auto pilot). Due to lack of foresight on my behalf by not getting the Aries set up and working correctly we relied on the auto pilot when cruising SW Ireland this year, which when under engine is fine but when under sail it just eats up the amps. Our wind generator couldn't keep up with it, which meant we had to run the engine to have any domestic power.

 

[srm]

Qucik scan through the thread picked up that you can not use a windvane with hydraulic steering because of hydraulic slip. This is correct, so I remove my hydraulic ram from the quadrant and connect the Monitor lines to a semi permanent tiller. Monitor works far better than it would through any wheel system as this gets rid of all wheel linkage friction.
You can always run long course adjustment lines to the centre cockpit. Change over from wheel to windvane takes two or three minutes but quick course changes in an emergency can be made with the tiller on the aft deck.

Just to add my vote to the windvane plus autopilot lobby - they both have their roles. I have experienced too many failures to trust autopilots 100%

Have fun.