self-bailers

[Opinionated]

Thinking about...

Fitting self-bailers.

Modern self-bailers are watertight when closed, and dinghies sit on moorings without any ingress of water. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to open your self-bailers at sea and drain out the bilge - chuck another bucket or two down below, to flush out, then close the s/b's again.

Has anybody fitted them to a cruiser?


IMHO, of course.

 

[tome]

Brave man!

I've had more leaks with sb's on dinghies than I've had with my Sunday roast!

 

[Twister_Ken]

Holes below waterline equals bad idea. nm

§

 

[claymore]

I'd probably forget that I'd opened them and quietly sink! Agree with Ken - its a bit like having a vasectomy - unnecessary surgery.

regards
Claymore

 

[Peppermint]

Re: Why Not

Provided you add the buoyancy as dinghy's do and calculate that you could generate enough speed, in a flooded cruiser, to dump the water out through them.

Just simple engineering.

 

[claymore]

Re: Why Not

Well then - you couldn't could you. Q.E.D.
A flooded cruiser is a flooded cruiser - it ain't going nowhere - perhaps a McGregor 26 would do it!
Seriously - dumping water from a capsized slow dinghy such as a Wayfarer or GP (not the Mk2) through self bailers is a major task - the increased volume of water in a flooded cruiser would mean that it would take even longer - and is entirely dependant on your point - if you could get it going. The assumption has to be that you couldn't use the engine as the electrics couldn't be relied upon - so no this would not work and Kens original point about having holes beneath the waterline not being a good idea is absolutely correct.

regards
Claymore

 

[sailbadthesinner]

Re: no way

hmmmmmmmmm
it is a bad idea in theoryand practice but i fear the potential for disaster is too great to justify any benefit that may accrue
they are only in dinghies as they have bouyancy and they tend to capsize alot



Wedding can be an anagram of 'JUST HANDOVER THE MONEY' if you can't spell.

 

[Guest]

Ditto

Dingy goes down = annoyance
Cruiser goes down = end of world

Don't do it!

Geoff

 

[jimi]

Use a bucket

I can vouch for that, I tried to empty a GP by going on a beam reach and very soon was doing a good impression of a sailing submarine! Only way if fully flooded is a hectic couple of minutes with a large bucket.

 

[vyv_cox]

I never had a dinghy with self bailers that didn't leak when there was no wind. There's a good rule in my business that is equally applicable to boats - never rely on a check valve. Which is really what a bailer is, with slight modification.

 

[Martin_Billings]

Re: Use a bucket

I have sailed one or two dinghies full of water to empty them using self bailers. I always found myself wondering about the maths involved in whether I could go fast enough to get the s/b's working before the mast snapped. I should like to see this calculation based on, say, a light displacement cruiser of the Jen/Ben/Bav persuasion full of water....but not mine.

 

[Guest]

Re: Use a bucket

Well, I'm also an ex-GP sailor (Mk 1) and have often been in situations where I've needed to get rid of an un-anticipated boatload of water.

Personal experience suggests the trick is to get the transom scuppers open first of course, so that as you make way the bulk of the water flows aft and out of the boat - when enough of it has gone you can then reach fast enough for the bailers to start being effective. The water goes out quite quickly once you start planing.

So, only a simple modification to the original proposal is required. Two large rectangular holes should be cut in the aft sections of the yacht cockpit, either side of the tiller/wheel (about 18" x 24" each should be adequate). These should be as close to the waterline as possible.

** Note: ensure operation of the gas bottles, diesel tank, bilge pump, wind generator, self steering and any safety gear is not compromised!! **

Cover each with an overlapping sheet of 12mm acrylic (approx 20" x 26") on the outside of the transom, hinged on one side and firmly secured to a strong fitting inside the cockpit with 20mm bungee cord (colour optional). The cabin bulkhead adjacent to the hatch would be ideal. Be careful on entry/egress to the cabin and when gybing. Any minor water entry through the scuppers can be controlled with duct tape.

In operation it may be necessary initially to get all of the crew to stand on the transom in order to encourage the water out of the cabin and through the scuppers. After that, a simple beam reach with full spinnaker for a few hours should be sufficient to clear the rest of the yacht via the bailers. One crew member should always remain below to listen for the satisfying Noo-Noo like slurpsuckgurgle noise of self-bailers in operation.

GD

 

[Twister_Ken]

Bailng a \'ball

In the days when I was a Fireballer, I remember hearing that a cockpit full of oggin weighed half a ton, about three or four times more than a dry boat and a couple of hefty crew. But you could self bail it in the sort of breeze that tipped you over in the first place. You had to watch that the lazy ends of control lines didn't get vortexed out of the Jack Holts, though.

 

[JamesS]

Seems a fair idea. I can well remember in my dinghy racing days how the self bailers would empty a previously capsized dinghy in a matter of minutes.

Two possible issues:

1. Would a cruiser make sufficient relative speed for the s/bs to work.

2. It is of course yet another hole in the boat below the waterline.

Cheers

 

[claymore]

Here is a case of

someone who hasn't read what went before - which is a shame as the well reasoned and scientifically proven contributions that have already been made, have proven beyond doubt that this is a real lemon of a theory and one which any insurer would steer very clear of!
A real issue has been raised in that it was suggested that the colour of the bungee holding tight the transom flaps was optional - surely not and bright yellow must be specified on account of the extra speed benefit to be gained - which it has been agreed, we are going to need to get this baby going.

regards
Claymore

 

[jimi]

You've obviously never capsized a GP14! I have and I can assure you that the bailers and flaps were wholly inadequate! On a lighter note, a friend of mine had the idea that if he removed the flaps on his Solo this would speed up emptying the boat when he capsized, one factor he forgot to take into account was that they also helped to keep the water out.

 

[Martin_Billings]

For a year or so in the late seventies I had an Int. Moth with a skiff hull, wings and an open transom. When the more conventional ways of falling in began to pall, I sometimes used to sail it backwards, fill it up with water then go forwards. The effect was rather like holding a bar of soap under water and then releasing it.

The things you do when you're young and stupid.........

 

[Twister_Ken]

Just occured to me

and I don't know why it has taken so long, that be-bailered sailing dinghies usually do not carry a bank of batteries, an electric bilge pump and a manual one. Cruisers do (probably) obviating the need for a pair of suckers chopped through the bottom.

 

[claymore]

Where\'s your sense of adventure?

Go on - let him dig a couple of holes and fit some transom flaps. Bilge pumps - pah!!

regards
Claymore

 

[Twister_Ken]

You\'re absloutely right

We need a second Captain Calamity. Tabloid press has not had many 'daft yachtsman' stories to boost circulation lately.

I note, he also wants to use the system to flush his bilges. The easy way to do that would be to combine bow flaps with transom flaps so there is free-flow when sailing. It would make installation of the head pretty darn simple too.

The only thing to remember would be to close flaps when sailing past sewage outfalls.