30boat
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What's the story behind that picture?Am I supposed to think that Z Spars masts all kink like that?
Selden vs Z Spars
- Thread starter 30boat
- Start date
jon711
Well-Known Member
Like wise what is the the story behind that mast, it doesn't look like a manufacturing fault, more a bad spec, badly maintanined or ill use damage from first glance....
Jon
Skylark
Well-Known Member
Please tell us more. What's the background leading you to the conclusion of poor engineering?
langstonelayabout
Well-Known Member
I had exactly the same experience with Selden when replacing the mast on my old E-Boat. They wanted to know all about the rig, the loading and most of the dimensions. Surprising really as they designed and made it and the 250 or so others that the E-Boat class used. Once I'd given them what little information I had Selden then told me to deal with a Devonport (I think) company who asked me it all again. At this point I bought and cut down an old Soling mast of identical section, saving me about £1500.
Still, my current boat has Z-Spars and they are very good. Z-Spars are also very quick to supply replacement parts too.
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merlin3688
Well-Known Member
Having worked for Z Spars, Selden (Fox's Marina) and Sailspar I know a little about the companies. David at Sailspar is one of those guys who will help anyone, give them a call and they will respond straight away with a answer or quote. Sailspar also offer the external tang system, which in my opinion is one of the best ways of attaching standing rigging, a simple swage eye that goes in to a tang and held by a clevis pin, if and when you need your rigging changed you can get it done anywhere as a swage eye is standard! The Seldem masts are built really well and if money was no option I would possibly go that way, as mentioned the standard of the fittings used are better then the Z Spar, having said that if you have any boat up to about 30' then you cannot beat the Z Spars price. Z Spars have recently changed the website, try ordering parts from it, its not great and the old site was so much better (http://www.zsparsuk.com/).
Strathglass
Well-Known Member
When I was looking for a mast for the yacht I was building I looked at all the alternatives. The two essential parameters I required were 'fitness for task' and lowest possible cost.
I ended up with a mast kit (unmachined extrusion plus all the fittings) from Sailspar. David and all his staff could not have been more helpful. I got a modern section and the price was below everyone else. I ended up ordering it at the Southampton boat show.
For the boom I went to Z spars and bought a 'seconds' which had some scratches on it but was otherwise fine and of course the price was right.
I would have happily have purchased from either Sailspar or Zspars although the mast section (Sparcraft) from Sailspar was much superior in many ways. Both Sailspar and Zspars gave me very good service. Quoted delivery costs for the mast were much lower with Zspars and I ended up modifying my trailer and collecting the mast myself from from Sailspar. The section was over fifty feet long.
The mast was for a Contention 33 and the boat was first launched five years ago. She is sailed in the North sea and has been out in quite severe conditions. Three years ago my wife and myself went round Rattrey Head with 30knots on the nose without any problems. The mast, boom and rig have not given any problems (although the French roller reefing did sieze up on one trip.
All of the other potential suppliers were intimately more expensive and wanted more information from me than I had available. One of them was even offering a Zspar section for the mast at considerable more cost.
I ended up with a mast kit (unmachined extrusion plus all the fittings) from Sailspar. David and all his staff could not have been more helpful. I got a modern section and the price was below everyone else. I ended up ordering it at the Southampton boat show.
For the boom I went to Z spars and bought a 'seconds' which had some scratches on it but was otherwise fine and of course the price was right.
I would have happily have purchased from either Sailspar or Zspars although the mast section (Sparcraft) from Sailspar was much superior in many ways. Both Sailspar and Zspars gave me very good service. Quoted delivery costs for the mast were much lower with Zspars and I ended up modifying my trailer and collecting the mast myself from from Sailspar. The section was over fifty feet long.
The mast was for a Contention 33 and the boat was first launched five years ago. She is sailed in the North sea and has been out in quite severe conditions. Three years ago my wife and myself went round Rattrey Head with 30knots on the nose without any problems. The mast, boom and rig have not given any problems (although the French roller reefing did sieze up on one trip.
All of the other potential suppliers were intimately more expensive and wanted more information from me than I had available. One of them was even offering a Zspar section for the mast at considerable more cost.
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mrming
Well-Known Member
I have a Z Spars mast and boom from the late 80s and they could not have been more helpful with spares etc. I always get a swift response via email.
On the other hand I tried to buy a backstay flicker from Selden and if took them so long to get back to me that I am now in the process of making my own.
On the other hand I tried to buy a backstay flicker from Selden and if took them so long to get back to me that I am now in the process of making my own.
Champagne Murphy
Well-Known Member
Dunno about the ownership but the Z Spars factory is in Suffolk.
ZSparc
New Member
Mast was 5 days old.
The conclusion comes from 3 different experts and engineers. The RM calculations were 20% off.
Don't buy a ZSpars mast if you want something well engineered - that is my experience.
Don't buy a ZSpars mast if you don't want them to make up a reason for failure that they wont put in writing - my experience again.
Don't buy a ZSpars mast if when your mast fails you want the manufacturer to at least inspect the mast - my experience again.
Simply - Don't buy ZSPARS.
The conclusion comes from 3 different experts and engineers. The RM calculations were 20% off.
Don't buy a ZSpars mast if you want something well engineered - that is my experience.
Don't buy a ZSpars mast if you don't want them to make up a reason for failure that they wont put in writing - my experience again.
Don't buy a ZSpars mast if when your mast fails you want the manufacturer to at least inspect the mast - my experience again.
Simply - Don't buy ZSPARS.
npf1
Well-Known Member
Were ZSpars responsible for those calculations? And, if so, who supplied the data on which to base those calculations? Are you referring to RM30, RM40 or something else?
Talulah
Well-Known Member
Selden would be my choice of mast but having experienced their attitude at the London Boat Show I would defer any purchase for as long as possible and even then want to go elsewhere.
I've previously seen the photo of the kinked ZSpars mast and irrespective of who did the calcs they wouldn't get my order no matter what the price differential was. As I understand it they worked against the customer, not with the customer and for that reason alone I wouldn't touch them. Classic case of you don't really know what the company is like until you have a problem. Bit like insurance.
I've previously seen the photo of the kinked ZSpars mast and irrespective of who did the calcs they wouldn't get my order no matter what the price differential was. As I understand it they worked against the customer, not with the customer and for that reason alone I wouldn't touch them. Classic case of you don't really know what the company is like until you have a problem. Bit like insurance.
charles_reed
Well-Known Member
The Z-Spars in Suffolk is a wholly owned subsidiary of Z-Diffusion in Perigny near la Rochelle. Z-Diffusion (usually) only operates through distributors. Though turnover for the company is lower than Selden, their output in volume of aluminium section produced is greater.
The firm is privately owned by the Gilbert family - Loic is the 2nd generation MD.
I've, mostly, dealt with Perigny - deliveries are spot-on, information sometimes has to be fought for.
Products are good for purpose - fittings, of zinc or alloy castings are definitely not as polished as Selden, but prices for complete assemblies are about 60%.
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pagoda
Well-Known Member
I have found ZSpars UK very friendly and quick to respond to anything I have asked. Fairly good value also. They do mid-market kit, but it works pretty well as far as I can see. We could have spent 50% more on the stuff we ordered , but what added benefit it would have brought is not clear. If I were running a charter boat , I might have different priorities?
dslittle
Well-Known Member
+1 I have always found them helpful and knowledgable.
lpdsn
Well-Known Member
I'm following the thread because I'm thinking of buying a new boom maybe next year, maybe the year after. So I am interested in people's bad experiences with suppliers. However, to be honest, whilst I can tell you're unhappy, you're not exactly giving a clear description of your experiences and the problems you suffered, so it's hard to give your comments serious consideration.