Seen a yacht for sale - new mast not fitted but included- possibly a good deal?

[salad]

I've seen this yacht for sale, it's a Granada 375, Danish built. It's part way through a refit and for whatever reason, it seems to have been halted. The list of refitted items appears extensive and someone has obviously spent a lot of money on the boat. The sale includes a new mast, which hasn't been fitted.

I haven't a clue how to begin going about estimating the cost of completing the refit, but I like the lines and being Scandinavian, the yacht is likely to be well built.

I'd appreciate some feedback from the more experienced members as to whether this represents a decent buying proposition. I'm sure if it does, someone browsing will snap it up, but its good knowledge for me anyway.

Listing is at: Granada Atlantica 375 | 11m | 1987 - North Ayrshire | Boats and Outboards

What do you think?

 

[Shuggy]

Seems like a lot of money for a dated boat with not much going for it looks wise or for accommodation. But only you will know if you want it and are willing to part with that much cash for a part completed project. If you’re planning on keeping it for a long time, go for it. But if you want to move it on you may struggle to get your money back. Feel free to ignore my opinion…

 

[William_H]

A "new Mast" worst case scenario might mean just a section of ali extrusion. You may need to fabricate and fit base if it is deck mounted, spreaders tangs for shrouds, forestay and backstay gooseneck, sheaves and halyards, All quite expensive. You would need to investigate. ol'will

 

[KompetentKrew]

Standing rigging cost nearly £4000 on my 40' boat.

 

[Major_Clanger]

I delivered one of these from Gib to Malta a few years ago and liked it. Not quick particularly or exciting, but went to windward and did everything competently.

I know little about value but I'd suggest the major question to ask is 'why?'. Why has the owner spent so much and then stopped, why does she need a new mast, why did she have a new engine.... The list goes on. There are probably perfectly sound answers for all of these but you need to know before proceeding. Survey is a must, and from a surveyor who'll actually give a real opinion.

Could be a great cruising boat but I reckon she's £10k over-priced. That's based solely on gut rather than knowledge of values.

 

[RJJ]

I haven't a clue how to begin going about estimating the cost of completing the refit,

That's the crux! You "just " need a table in excel with a vertical list of all the items outstanding. Then three columns where you have £values for "works agreed" "works quoted" and "works with my guesstimate value". Add 20pc contingency and don't forget VAT.

Some of the items will be in the few hundred pounds. Some e.g. sails will be in the few k but easy to price up with a phone call or two. Some will be in the several k and rather hard to quantify e.g. the mast...and then there will be total "unknowns". Final sentence is the key to setting yourself up to succeed. You'd like a good working version of that document before agreeing an offer, and it's a question of time spent to refine it....vs. get on with it.

I would be asking the seller what remains on the list; does he have quotes; has anything started etc? If he has a well-organised lists it's a good sign. Then instruct your surveyor, if you get that far, to verify that list / your list. If the seller left stuff off, push hard to allow for it in the price. Also you should interview the yard that did the work so far, they may know the boat better than the seller.

As to "is this a good deal". I am a bit more optimistic. I bet you could buy a similar boat ready-to-go for 45k but "need" to spend £kk on standing rigging, skin fittings, rudder bearings, and at least a major engine overhaul. Maybe even a new engine.

The price should reflect market alternatives, the work required, plus (which is considerable) your time, stress and risk.

I would be investing time to explore this particularly if you have a preference for this marque vs a BenJenBav etc.

 

[dankilb]

Standing rigging cost nearly £4000 on my 40' boat.

We were at about that (inc yard fees) for our 41’ in Jan this year - but the yard recently pointed out that stainless has increased by as much as threefold since. Getting the same story from other ss suppliers. Sta Lok and others typically price based on catalogue RRPs, set at the turn of the calendar year, so expect big increases on those parts soon.

It isn’t a great time to be undertaking a (or completing someone else’s) refit.

I’d raise RJJ’s contingency to 50% - in all seriousness - due to the disproportionate impact of inflation on our ‘industry’.

 

[salad]

Thanks everyone. Apparently standing rigging was replaced this year and the following is detail of the refit thus far. Some is relatively superficial, but it's a considerably investment, custom covers from Saturn wont be cheap for example. What puzzling me as you say, is why abandon this when you've already spent so much? Is anyone really going to embark on this amount of work and expense without fully checking things over, or was the mast was dropped through the hull lol


Engine
Brand new Beta 30HP Sail Drive engine with 100amp alternator, large CW control panel, NMEA2000 integrations - 2021

Diesel tank emptied and cleaned out - 2021

Sail drive with 2 blade folding prop

Electronics
Re-wire with all new cables run in 2021, some final connecting up still to be done

3x 120aH Leisure Battery - 2021

Victron Battery monitoring system - 2021

Victron battery charger & 2000va inverter - 2020

Fusion Stereo with speakers in Saloon & Cockpit - 2021

240v Shore power with cable

Navigation
Raymarine Axiom Pro 12" Plotter - 2022

Raymarine Transducer with speed, depth and temperature - 2021

AIS Transponder - 2021

New Raymarine Autopilot - 2020

New binnacle compass - 2020

New LOPO LED Navigation lights - 2021

Deck Equipment
All deck gear removed in 2020, holes filled with epoxy and then predrilled and fittings bedded with Sikaflex.

New Spinlock deck organisers - 2020

New Spinlock clutches - 2020

Headsail tracks rebedded - 2021

Winches removed, serviced and rebedded - 2020

New 60m 10mm calibrated, galvanised anchor chain - 2021

New Lewmar Delta Anchor - 2021

New Lewmar Windlass - 2021

Steering system stripped and serviced with rudder bearings replaced - 2020

Teak boarding ladder refurbished - 2021

Teak strips replaced in swim platform - 2021

Mast, Rigging, Sails and Canvas
New mast with slab reefing and new inner forestay - 2022 - Yet to be fitted, but included in the sale.

Harken Furler overhauled - 2020

New standing rigging - 2022

Mainsail in good condition

Headsail in good condition

Stormsail in good condition

Spinnaker in good condition

All running rigging is Kingfisher Cruising Dyneema - 2021

New sprayhood, aft canopy and Stackpack made by Saturn Sails - 2021

Spinlock Sail Sense sewen onto sails - 2021

 

[Neeves]

Maybe the owner or his wife (or father, daughter) had a life threatening emergency and has more important worries.

Would you advertise your distress and heart break?

I have a friend who was upgrading a large yacht - he was diagnosed with Parkinsons - he sold the uncompleted yacht. Its tough - you could hang on and then leave your partner to clear up for you (you don't know), or accept the harsh reality.

There are many reasons to 'swallow the anchor' many of them are not heart warming.

Don't question, don't condemn, tread carefully.

Jonathan

 

[salad]

Maybe the owner or his wife (or father, daughter) had a life threatening emergency and has more important worries.

I have a friend who was upgrading a large yacht - he was diagnosed with Parkinsons - he sold the uncompleted yacht.

Jonathan

Well I hope it's not as serious as that. I've asked anyway, so will see what comes down from the broker.

 

[Tradewinds]

Sometimes stuff happens that relegates everything into second place. Speaking from experience.

 

[dankilb]

Agree - the amount of new equipment suggests the boat itself isn’t the reason for sale. Our equipment list would read similarly in terms of ‘newness’ (not showing off - it’s just what needed doing). I guess plans can always change.

Personally - and based on having done a similar refit - our next boat will ideally be pretty recently ‘sorted’ but/and - importantly - also in commission, with some miles under her keel. No particular reason, other than that the costs keep coming either way and a good inventory of serviceable (and tested) equipment, plus spares, can be worth its weight…

There will no doubt be a lot more kit, hours, and yard fees (e.g. craning the mast) to get this out on the water. So compare to a sorted boat, in commission that’s at least, say, 20/25% more expensive.

Do have very good look and make sure all the work was done well. It isn’t easy, on an older boat, even for the ‘professionals’.

 

[salad]

It's sold, so on to the next one. Thanks for all the input though, it's very useful to a newbie like me.

As an aside, the broker indicated it has already been handed over to the new owners. It was only listed 6 days ago.

 

[dankilb]

Blimey! So much for the market slowing/prices dropping.

 

[ProDave]

It says new mast and rigging, yet to be fitted.

Make it a condition of sale that the mast IS fitted and rigging attached and set before you complete the sale. That puts all the risk of the mast or rigging being wrong (and any adjustments) on the vendor.

You really want to see the mast up and sails rigged so you can actually see the sails on the mast and ensure everything is correct.

 

[Neeves]

Blimey! So much for the market slowing/prices dropping.

If you like that style (and it looking and being old fashioned is seen by some as an advantage, with which I can sort of sympathise), it had been well looked after and was not OTT on price - it could have been a very good deal - nothing to do with the market slowing or not. For example I like dovetail joints in drawers. Fees, like craning the mast in would not be THE deal breaker for me Good quality wins out.

A Benny, Jenny, Bav et al - it was not.

Jonathan

 

[dankilb]

Wasn’t questioning the price/value of this one, as much as commenting on the speed of sale/completion.

 

[Neeves]

Wasn’t questioning the price/value of this one, as much as commenting on the speed of sale/completion.

I know what you mean

Well - to me it was a distressed sale. With all the effort in even collecting the new bits of kit - an enormous investment in time - the only reason to sell was some form of desperation - get it out of the way NOW! For people who don't own boats and have no investment in them - they can be a nuisance

Thanks for taking her on, look after her - but good bye.

I see a sad story behind it all - and I'd rather not know

I suspect some lucky guy found a true bargain.

The OP is going to curse he did not jump more quickly.

Jonathan

 

[salad]

I know what you mean

Well - to me it was a distressed sale. With all the effort in even collecting the new bits of kit - an enormous investment in time - the only reason to sell was some form of desperation - get it out of the way NOW! For people who don't own boats and have no investment in them - they can be a nuisance

Thanks for taking her on, look after her - but good bye.

I see a sad story behind it all - and I'd rather not know

I suspect some lucky guy found a true bargain.

The OP is going to curse he did not jump more quickly.

Jonathan

I think by the time I spotted it last night, it was too late. I'm just not confident enough to dive in and say "yep, I'll take her", but thats what the market seems to demand at the moment, so I'm keeping well back.

 

[Neeves]

I think by the time I spotted it last night, it was too late. I'm just not confident enough to dive in and say "yep, I'll take her", but thats what the market seems to demand at the moment, so I'm keeping well back.

No thought of being critical - just part of life's rich pattern. It can be easy to rush in with both feet and an open wallet - and regret it for a long time. When you find her - she will be the one for you.

When we bought Josepheline we drove from Sydney to Cairns and looked at ever cat available - its about 1,500km (we had a caravan then). We have kept her for over 20 years - no regrets of the bargains we missed.

Good luck

Jonathan