Seeking Information re: Sunray 21'

[theluckyone17]

tl;dr: Possibly picking up a neglected Sunray 21'; am I daft?

The long version: There's a Sunray 21' twin keel sitting in my neighbor's front yard, sorely neglected. The owner, as the story goes, picked it up as a project boat with intentions of turning it into a live-aboard (at least for a few weeks out of the year, which in my mind makes it more of an "overextending your stay with the family" more than a live-aboard). Like most folk's long term projects, it doesn't look like she got any further than stripping the interior. Fast forward a few years, after getting married, acquiring a house rental and some cats, along with too many knickknacks to fit in a 21' boat, and she's finally coming to the realization that it's likely to never happen. Her husband has absolutely no interest in the boat whatsoever. She's renting the house from her parents, who are not keen on having the boat become a permanent lawn ornament.

I've built several skin on frame kayaks, done some work on a fiberglass dinghy and 19' weekender, and apparently have acquired enough of a reputation that the mother has dropped some not so subtle hints that I should inquire into "purchasing it", with the acknowledgement that there's a hefty discount on account of its condition. I've given it a look over... and it could easily turn into a five year project. Then there's the ol' axiom: "Take whatever I think the realistic deadline is for a project, and double it." I do enjoy working on boats, and it's more productive than spending my cash down at the bar, sending whiskey back to the sea.

Problem is... I'm having difficulty finding out anything about the model. Serial number plate in the cabin indicates it was built in England by Intermarine LTD. Serial number is 011. The only documentation I've found is a sales brochure, posted within this same forum. Can't find anything on the manufacturer... gotta imagine they were either bought out and swallowed up decades ago, presumably by Sun Yachts Ltd, who has also gone out of business. Seems there's a bit of a following behind the Leisure line that the designer (Arthur Howard) put out, but I'm not sure how similar the designs are. I can't even find a decent high-res photo of the boat with its sails up... plenty of "For Sale" ads with them tied up or resting on the hard.

Anyone happen to have a source for some more information or documentation regarding the model? My thanks in advance.

Noel

 

[VicS]

tl;dr: Possibly picking up a neglected Sunray 21'; am I daft?

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Anyone happen to have a source for some more information or documentation regarding the model? My thanks in advance.

Noel

As you have discovered one of a range of small boats designed by Arthur Howard, who also designed the Leisure 17.

Neil_s, of these forums owned one for a few years a while back ( IIRC that need a good bit of TLC when he first got it) If he comes this way take note of what he says. I am sure it will be complimentary regarding the sailing performance.

I cannot think that a 21 ft boat could be a 5 year project.

 

[Tranona]

In a sense knowing about the history of the type is not really relevant to the success of the project. The boat is what it is and the key thing (apart from whether you like it!) is whether it has got all the key bits with it to make it functional - mast, sails etc as without these you will struggle. Interior is what you make it, although as you are probably aware, doing all this can be expensive and enormously time consuming.

One school of thought says such boats are best left where they are or scrapped as complete functioning boats of that size can be bought for a fraction of what it costs to make an abandoned heap usable. On the other hand they make cheap garden sheds if you want a reason to escape and spend some quality time dreaming and achieving very little.

 

[theluckyone17]

... I cannot think that a 21 ft boat could be a 5 year project.

You haven't seen how slow I work! I'm limited to nights and weekends in warm weather, as well... I don't have a workshop large enough to cover a 21' boat. I'm on the tail end of restoring that O'Day 19; once that's complete, repairing the Sunray would compete against sailing the O'Day.

I'll send a PM Neil's way and see if he can provide some words on the model, and if he ran across any "gotcha's" while working on his.

In a sense knowing...

There is that. I can't say I'd recommend restoring a boat to anyone who doesn't enjoy working on them, for the sake of working on them. Some folks pour money into big tanks in their boat, then go roaring around in circles in small lakes. I'm just as happy working on an old neglected boat. There aren't many of the twin keels on this side of The Pond, either... it sticks out a bit. If it were another Catalina 22, I'd pass and keep looking. Luckily, the mast, boom, and standing rigging look to be in decent shape. The owner claims the sails are in storage, as well as the cushions, interior bits, outboard & mount, and running rigging. I haven't seen any of them yet, however, and I'm not banking on them until I do.

Current owner's gonna take a week or so to figure out what her plans are regarding it's future, although with winter setting in, there's no rush. Tarp it and wait for warmer weather. If she does keeps it, however, I'm sure I'll be consulted on it at some point in the future.

 

[Humblebee]

I think this was a bigger relative of a boat I once had, a Sunspot 15, very like a Leisure 17 but 2ft shorter.

 

[ProDave]

As it happens a Sunray 21 is one of the boats I now sail (I don't own it, it's a boat share group)

For the size it has good accommodation, a proper heads 4 real berths (though not very big) and a small galley and just about standing headroom (for someone short like me) in front of the galley.

But you really need to consider whether the work is worth it. Plenty of people buy a project boat and never actually get to sail it. You can buy boats in this sort of size ready to sail for under £2000. At this end of the market, condition of the sails is important, if it needs new sails that expense will be almost as much as the entire boat is worth.

How will you transport it? is it on a trailer? is the trailer any good? If it's going to cost you a packet to transport and fix up, just go and buy one ready to sail.

These boats I believe are twin skin with a foam core. If water has got into the foam, forget it.

 

[theluckyone17]

Sure... I can buy a simliar boat for £2000 (and I've seen 'em), but they're all across the Atlantic. Airfare over has to run a good chunk of the price of a new set of sails, not to mention the cost of sailing or shipping it back. I'd be better off finding a centerboard/swinging keel over here in the States, for that price.

I'll feel better after seeing the state of the bits in storage; the value of the hull is nothing. Mast & boom are worth their weight in scrap; there aren't enough Sunrays over here in the States to warrant hanging onto them for sale on the used market. Can't imagine the cost to ship a mast back to Europe. If the outboard is in good shape, that'll add some value. I'm expecting the sails to be in typical used condition or worse; again, by themselves they don't add much. If she's expecting much for the boat, she'll be sorely disappointed.

Double axle trailer's included. Frame is good, could use a good sandblast and paintjob. Tires are shot from sitting. Bearings would need to be inspected, repacked or replaced as necessary. If the wiring is anything but shot, I'll be surprised. If the grounds are good, I'll be writing the Pope about the miracle in Upstate NY.

If there's a foam core in the deck, that'd be rough. It's likely wet, and those freeze/thaw cycles won't do any good for the laminate. That said... I did see a sales brochure implying that the hull and deck are solid fiberglass lay-ups. I'd expect to see some sort of backing material laminated in at areas of higher stress (outboard mount, deck hardware, etc)... if that's wet, it's straightforward enough to cut out and replace, if time consuming.

 

[Seajet]

A friend at my club has a Sunray 21, they seem a good boat - maybe not as brilliant for her size as the Leisure 17 is, but you can't strike pure gold every time - not aware of any faults but I can ask the owner. I have a great respect for Arthur Howard as a designer.

I also have the original brochure but I take it you have that already ?

 

[MonniotC]

Sounds to me that you might take it on as a freebie, or just a FEW bucks. Do not part with real money for it.

 

[theluckyone17]

A friend at my club has a Sunray 21... I also have the original brochure but I take it you have that already ?

I'd be grateful for more information; haven't heard back from Neil yet. Discussions online seem limited to "it's a great design."

Sounds to me that you might take it on as a freebie, or just a FEW bucks. Do not part with real money for it.

We are on the same page there. There's a lot of work to be done on that boat, and her street value is just about scrap. The outboard, if it's in decent condition and sized appropriately, might be worth a couple hundred.

 

[neil_s]

Sorry - I don't think I can help you with more info. I have a photocopy of the brochure, but you already have that. I owned Sunray number 001 for a few years. She came to me as a restoration job - just as you're contemplating. Restoration shouldn't be too difficult, since the boat comprises hull, internal and deck mouldings - no foam. The keels are moulded in with the hull and are filled with steel stampings as ballast - so any damage to the bottom of the keels leading to water leaking in is serious. Also check that the rudder shaft is straight. The design is outwardly similar to the Leisure 17. Despite the rather bulbous shape I found her to sail quite well - I think Arthur Howard understood bilge keels! Another thing to look out for is the mast step - I seem to remember it consisted of a little tabernacle resting on a wooden pad so is prone to wood rot. There is a plywood bulkhead to support it inside.

 

[theluckyone17]

You're more help than you might realize. I'm happy to have confirmation that the hull & deck are solid fiberglass. I'll check the bottom of the keels as best I can, with it sitting on the trailer. Leading and trailing edges are clean, which is a good sign. Rudder shaft is straight as well, as best I can tell with it on the trailer. The "tabernacle" has some surface rust; underside in the cabin shows signs of water ingress. Been dealing with that on my O'Day enough... cutting fiberglass, chiseling out the backing, then fiberglassing over new backing. The way you worded the tabernacle bit makes me wonder, though... is there fiberglass 'tween the tabernacle and the wood pad? If not, it should be easy enough to replace. I was expecting to see the wood core sandwiched between the layers of fiberglass. I do need to take a pick to the bottom of the bulkhead, if the owner opts to let the boat move on; there's some discoloration there, but not enough to tell if it's rotted out already.

 

[theluckyone17]

Figured I ought to give a follow-up: convinced the current owner to slap a tarp over it for the winter, mostly by donating the tarp, but it was worth the effort to keep the frozen wet stuff off her for another season. Owner gave it a good while, then came to the conclusion that she wasn't quite emotionally ready to hand possession over to someone else. Her words, not mine.

I ended up finding a twin keel '67 Tylercraft 24' down in Long Island, not far from where she was built. Bought her for the price of the tandem axle trailer, and she's in just as rough shape as the Sunray is, if not worse, due to the amount of soaked and delaminated plywood present. She'll be a fun challenge to rebuild, though. Rather hoping my efforts to bring the Tylercraft back to a seaworthy condition spurs my neighbor into getting the Sunray fixed up. Ain't likely, but one never knows...

 

[langstonelayabout]

Sounds to me that you might take it on as a freebie, or just a FEW bucks. Do not part with real money for it.

This is the best advice on this page. Cheap boats that are fixer-uppers usually make the most expensive boats once all is done. Do not pay more than $50 for this boat. Even if the hull, mast, sails and engine are reasonable. And don't use the existing standing rigging as it will be well past it's prime and your safety relies on it doing its job.

 

[neil_s]

Best of luck with your new boat! It doesn't have to cost a packet - I made lots of bits and pieces myself and found second hand articles to fit. Other people are always 'upgrading' their own boats - you just have to be be in the right place at the right time. Household paints can give just as good a finish as marine ones, too.

 

[theluckyone17]

Thanks! I've got a lot of work on my plate, getting it back on the water, but I'll be doing most of the work myself, and learning as I go. Fiberglass and wood work I've done; rigging not so much. Haven't settled on cable or synthetic replacement for the standing rigging, and I'll be learning swaging/splicing when I do replace it. Just about the one thing I won't be doing is sewing my own sails... Not so much a result of no desire, but not having the large clean workshop desirable to do it.

I'll keep an eye out on the second hand market for hardware. Ted Tyler allegedly bought the bits off the shelf when the boat was built, so finding parts will be a matter of matching what's on there now and what works as a replacement. I won't feel guilty about going off canon, so to speak.

Paint's gonna be the easy part. I'm the son a farmer, so it'll likely be off the shelf Rustoleum for the interior, and "off the Amazon" for Rustoleum Topsides for the deck & hull. I'll be trailer sailing her to begin with, so I'm not so concerned about using the topside paint on the bottom. Later on in life, when I'm (semi)retired and can afford to spend weeks/months out on the water, then I'll spring for some proper bottom paint.

I'll be searching out the deeper ramps on Upstate NY's lakes, plus hitting the Long Island Sound. Once I can afford to take a year or two off, I would love to do the Great Loop or even just the ICW.

 

[theluckyone17]

Best laid plans of mice and men... I'm back in a British built boat, and the Tylercraft will be sold or scrapped (if I can't find someone to take her on). Been doing some pro bono work for the local yacht club. They repossessed a '69 Westerly Centaur for unpaid storage fees. Prior owner was on the tail end of a refit. Needs that refit finished up (hose clamps, wiring finished, and work doublechecked), plus the keel stub strengthening. Top and bottom paint as well. Dinghy will likely need some wood replaced, but I might be able to get it done with a minimum of fuss. I'd be all sorts of crazy to take on the Tylercraft as a project when the Centaur is in my hands.

Photos of the Centaur: https://photos.app.goo.gl/DkSnmr44FhGzjbA99

P.S.: That furling jib does not belong to the Centaur. Prior owner pulled it off another repossessed sailboat in the yard (bigger than the Centaur), which explains why it looks much longer than it should be. Condition is questionable; I haven't decided yet whether to scrap it, sell it, or try to refit it for use on the Centaur.