Seeing your old boats on Youtube and the 'net...

jimmy_the_builder said:
... which is in the public domain. I really don't like forumites who openly criticise other forumites boats. I just don't think it is the done thing.
Cheers
Jimmy
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Hi Jimmy,
Strong and good point of view that, but to be fair, I can't remember anyone slagging off another's boat on open forii. (unless it was one of the wind-up trolls)

There are several makes and models I wouldn't choose or aspire to own but to be sure...
A Fairline Squadron is not one of them and I don't really give a 'wotsit' Wot shape the hull windows are!:o

RR
 
No worries here about poll/non poll, due to a water+duck's back interface on my part, but thanks for the thought Jimmy

Thing is, all these boats are compromises. TBH, I don't absolutely love the hull windows on my boat and the Riva 75 Venere Evo is far better looking I'd say. As flybridges go (which is a bit of a limitation of course...) Riva 75 must be the sexiest 24m out there. But go inside and be ready for disappointment. The helm ergonomics are atrocious, and you can only have pathetic Mitsubishi gyro stabs, and the shower rooms are tiny. And it runs out of fuel at 3/4 of the miles of the Sq78. And as a new buyer, who wants to be a £2m unsecured creditor of that particular builder?

Now someone else could easily think the opposite and love the Riva's styling and not care about helm ergos (that's the crew's lookout, Riva will tell you!) or the small range, and might even think Mitsu stabs are lovely things.

So it's all a compromise. There are plenty of shortcomings of Sq78 for sure, but at the times of my 2 orders, 2010 and 2012, the Sq78 was/is the best all round overall package. But only imho!

I'd really like to take the riva 75 mouldings then sketch and spec my own machinery, hardware and interior, have another builder (with a fat balance sheet) build it perfectly, for the same price as a PrinSeekFair 80 footer. But that ain't gonna happen!
 
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jimmy_the_builder said:
as a general rule, I really don't like forumites who openly criticise other forumites boats.
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Mmm... In other words, you think it's "unfriendly" to criticise another forumite's boat, but you think it's ok to criticise the person who does?

Incidentally, by saying the above, you are implying that you don't like both of us. I mean, not just mapism, but also jtb.
Just think about it: if you "fear" that the poll might be favourable to M1 layout, you are agreeing with me (sort of) that it's nicer.
Therefore, in your mind you are also criticizing another forumite's boat, albeit more subtly than myself.
Otoh, when I mentioned the poll, I was genuinely curious about its result, and I wouldn't have bet that the majority agrees with my view.
In fact, a few comments so far have been favourable to M2, so a poll might well prove that I am wrong and FL is right (square windows is in fact the current FL design in general, not just for jfm boat - M2 might have been the first 78 with them, but I don't think she'll be the last).

But leaving aside academic comments on the pragmatics of human communication, I really can't understand what's the point of refraining from making comments unless they are positive?
I'd call that deference as opposed to objectivity, rather than being "friendly" vs. "unfriendly".
Btw, also jfm is a chap who neither refrains from criticizing other forumites' choices when he doesn't agree with them, nor treats other criticisms as water off a duck's back, when he understands that they make sense - in spite of what he just said above.
I wouldn't waste my time commenting around here, with anyone who REALLY doesn't care one bit about it.
 
jfm said:
as a new buyer, who wants to be a £2m unsecured creditor of that particular builder?
...
have another builder (with a fat balance sheet) build it perfectly
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Well, I never looked into the SHIG b/s, but at a guess it must be fatter than that of most EU boatbuilders....
I surely can't think of any other for which I'd be comfy being a 2m unsecured creditor, anyhow!
 
MapisM said:
Mmm... In other words, you think it's "unfriendly" to criticise another forumite's boat, but you think it's ok to criticise the person who does?

Incidentally, by saying the above, you are implying that you don't like both of us. I mean, not just mapism, but also jtb.
Just think about it: if you "fear" that the poll might be favourable to M1 layout, you are agreeing with me (sort of) that it's nicer.
Therefore, in your mind you are also criticizing another forumite's boat, albeit more subtly than myself.
Otoh, when I mentioned the poll, I was genuinely curious about its result, and I wouldn't have bet that the majority agrees with my view.
In fact, a few comments so far have been favourable to M2, so a poll might well prove that I am wrong and FL is right (square windows is in fact the current FL design in general, not just for jfm boat - M2 might have been the first 78 with them, but I don't think she'll be the last).

But leaving aside academic comments on the pragmatics of human communication, I really can't understand what's the point of refraining from making comments unless they are positive?
I'd call that deference as opposed to objectivity, rather than being "friendly" vs. "unfriendly".
Btw, also jfm is a chap who neither refrains from criticizing other forumites' choices when he doesn't agree with them, nor treats other criticisms as water off a duck's back, when he understands that they make sense - in spite of what he just said above.
I wouldn't waste my time commenting around here, with anyone who REALLY doesn't care one bit about it.
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It was silly of me to have forgotten your tedious penchant for relentless and pointless debate. But, as you mention it, I don't think it's 'unfriendly', I think it's just plain rude. My point is not about criticising the model of boat owned by another forumite, but about criticising another forumites actual own boat. There is a distinction.

And, in the words of F. Gump, that is all I have to say about that. Goodbye.
 
jimmy_the_builder said:
It was silly of me to have forgotten your tedious penchant for relentless and pointless debate. But, as you mention it, I don't think it's 'unfriendly', I think it's just plain rude. My point is not about criticising the model of boat owned by another forumite, but about criticising another forumites actual own boat. There is a distinction.

And, in the words of F. Gump, that is all I have to say about that. Goodbye.
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Wow. You had one of those days, I guess?
Just as a reminder, this pointless debate started with post #14, and it wasn't mine.
 
Confused here: post #14 or post #9? :D

Anyway, the same guy has posted 2 more videos. I gotta hand it to our boating friends in the Nordic countries - they know how to look after their boats. They lift them out and take them to indoor storage sheds for the winter. Very impressive. And they just lifted Match 1 onto a big truck in the middle of the night, without removing props and rudders, and wheeled it into a huge shed with seemingly little fuss. Good going!



 
MapisM said:
Well, I never looked into the SHIG b/s, but at a guess it must be fatter than that of most EU boatbuilders....
I surely can't think of any other for which I'd be comfy being a 2m unsecured creditor, anyhow!
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Ah yes indeed! I temporarily forgot about the SHIG acquisition, doh. I'm too used to knowing Ferretti as a 2007 LBO. My mistake. Come to think of it, they might have still been leveraged at the time I ordered M2, but no matter about. You are obviously correct in saying their balance sheet is now quite thickly padded :D
 
jfm said:
Confused here: post #14 or post #9? :D
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LOL, c'mon, I know you're honest (and clever) enough to be not confused at all.
The "relentless and pointless debate" I've been pulled into is the one jtb started, which has nothing to see with hull windows.

PS: agreed re. the organization M1 is currently enjoying.
TBH, I've seen yards in the Adriatic capable to store even bigger boats, pulling them directly from the water to the shelter with a BIG travel lift, but those videos are impressive anyway.
 
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jfm said:
I'd really like to take the riva 75 mouldings then sketch and spec my own machinery, hardware and interior, have another builder (with a fat balance sheet)
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jfm said:
Ah yes indeed! I temporarily forgot about the SHIG acquisition, doh. I'm too used to knowing Ferretti as a 2007 LBO. My mistake. Come to think of it, they might have still been leveraged at the time I ordered M2, but no matter about. You are obviously correct in saying their balance sheet is now quite thickly padded :D
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So now you are happy with their balance sheet, does that mean we can look forward to a new thread for Fiammifero 3? :D Having said that I don't really care as I think the Hardy brand is great too.
 
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