Second hand market must be DIRE

Bit late to join this thread I suppose but I discovered many years ago that the first offer is usually the best, my experience was in buying and selling plant, trucks etc and the amount of times that I was stuck with something after turning a man down was depressing until I learnt that truth. I also used to bid low to start, you can come up,you can't go down, f they got upset fair enough,keep it, after they turned down a few and still no takers they often rang and took the offer.
 
I strongly object to the Bananarist tone developing in this thread.

Bananas have feelings too.

Sure, there are good Bananas and bad Bananas; not all of them are bent.

.......aktualy, 'spose they are all bent - a bit. :confused:
 
chinita said:
I strongly object to the Bananarist tone developing in this thread.

Bananas have feelings too.

Sure, there are good Bananas and bad Bananas; not all of them are bent.

.......aktualy, 'spose they are all bent - a bit. :confused:
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Seems as if you need a name change from Chinita.............how about Chiquita?:D
 
I thought I'd have a quick look on Apollo Duck and see if I can find a genuine bargain.

I'm not looking to upgrade just now, but if I was I would be looking for a 25-27' lift keeler with good racing performance and comfortable enough for a weekend with four on board.

As this is supposed to be a bargain, maximum budget £12k. And I don't want to spend a fortune upgrading it for club racing.

Ideally I'd like a Super Seal 26, and coincidentally that's the only boat I could find which both meets my criteria and looks like a genuine bargain:
http://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=319771

Asking £10,750 with a full suit of racing sails, a 2006 outboard and a pretty decent looking interior for a 1980 boat.

When I started shopping for my current boat two years ago this would have been asking £18k and would have been way over my budget.

Incidentally I'd also like an Evolution 25/26. Is this guy having a laugh at £15k? http://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/advert.phtml?id=328747
 
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windlipper said:
It has been my belief that older used boats have been over priced for many years. Its obvious, the older they become the more likely things will go wrong and the expensive general maintenance costs inevitably increase with the age of the vessel. I bought my 2 year old boat 5 years ago at a cost of just under £50000. The same model boat is now being advertised with brokers at between £40000 and £45000. Supposing I was to get the lower amount for mine I would have suffered £10000 depreciation or £2000 per year. I find that wonderful and far more than can be justified. I've lost double that amount with the 2 moderate family cars I have owned in the same period! Its upkeep has cost far more than the cars of course but that's the price of boat ownership.
Perhaps the time has come for all used boats to be far cheaper and we have to accept the depreciation, it might actually do the industry good, what do they say about cars? - For every new one sold another three or four go through the second hand market.
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Have you seen the price of good quality new boats? There are lots of extras to be bought as well. In any case a well looked after used boat can be better than some new boats I've come across.
 
savageseadog said:
Have you seen the price of good quality new boats? There are lots of extras to be bought as well. In any case a well looked after used boat can be better than some new boats I've come across.
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There just isn't much new choice in some sizes either. Around the 26' mark, for example, you have the Cornish Crabber 26 for £100k, the odd French or Polish thing and that's about it. If you're one of those (us) peculiar people who don't feel a need for double aft cabins, hot and cold running water and so on, the second-hand market is the place to look, which is why good boats in that range seem to keep respectable value.
 
I did not get sentimental when I sold my boat, I put it at a very realistic price and it sold within a month close to the asking price. If and when I purchase another boat I will be looking for a good deal, if some one wants to sell their boat and they accept my offer I assume each party is happy, otherwise why accept it?
I cannot imagine any other large consumer item, such as a car for example, people being worried about upsetting the person you want to buy it from or getting upset if some one put in what I thought was a low offer. I would politely tell them it was not enough and move on, if they upped their offer to what I thought was a reasonable one I would be happy to do business with them
 
your right car depreciation is a absolute joke my 80.000 down to 10.000 in 5 years my moody 34 i have the bill 55.000 in 1985 and some ppl are are still asking that for them today
 
dilly said:
your right car depreciation is a absolute joke my 80.000 down to 10.000 in 5 years my moody 34 i have the bill 55.000 in 1985 and some ppl are are still asking that for them today
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Boats like mine are currently selling for around the same as they cost new in the late 80s. Of course there has been a significant amount of inflation since then, but you are quite right that in general boats do not deprecate as much as cars.

But then, they aren't designed to last as long as cars either. Cars are basically designed for three owners. The first, often a fleet owner, wants the status of newness and the convenience of a warranty. After three or four years they want to be able to sell it for a reasonable amount to someone who wants fair reliability but isn't bothered about the new car smell. He keeps it for another five years or so, or to about 100,000 miles, at which he passes it over cheaply to someone who doesn't mind paying for repairs as well a maitenance, gets another five years out of it and scraps it at 12 - 15 years old
 
In our local paper there's a ( new looking to me ) Aston Martin DB9, silver so not a repulsive pink or something, manual gearbox and low mileage going for £34,000, serious depreciation for someone but if I owned a petrol station & tyre bay I might be tempted !
 
Forgetting cars for a moment ( I sold my Morgan after 4 years & got 25% more for it than I paid)
Nobody has actually said it, but let's face it, is an Anderson really worth £1500-00?
Whilst an excellent design as far as sailing is concerned, that is all they have going for them
But take into account the age - along with sails & rig. knackered upholstery, rather simplistic cooker etc & the fact that some of the past owners have probably cut & shut bits ( for want of a better phrase) really does not merit more than £ 1500-00 unless it was something special- Although i cannot see what would make it special.
Do not forget the expense that has to be found as soon as one buys it- ie surveys, insurance, replacing missing bits such as ropes & blocks, new tyres on the trailer, storage travelling too & from it whilst getting it ready to take home,just as a sample of the possibles
 
Daydream believer said:
Forgetting cars for a moment ( I sold my Morgan after 4 years & got 25% more for it than I paid)
Nobody has actually said it, but let's face it, is an Anderson really worth £1500-00?
Whilst an excellent design as far as sailing is concerned, that is all they have going for them
But take into account the age - along with sails & rig. knackered upholstery, rather simplistic cooker etc & the fact that some of the past owners have probably cut & shut bits ( for want of a better phrase) really does not merit more than £ 1500-00 unless it was something special- Although i cannot see what would make it special.
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Except that a well maintained one will have good sails, recent riggings, nice upholstery and may even have a cooker you'd like. Older boats don't have to be scruffy, you know.

Do not forget the expense that has to be found as soon as one buys it- ie surveys, insurance, replacing missing bits such as ropes & blocks, new tyres on the trailer, storage travelling too & from it whilst getting it ready to take home,just as a sample of the possibles
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A boat on a trailer is much less likely to have high storage costs. For anything under £5k value or so you might as well have third party insurance which is £80 per annum and does not require a survey.
 
jwilson said:
There are "buyers" out there who make very, very low offers. We had someone offer £12,000 for this boat, which shortly afterwards sold to someone else for very close to the asking price after a good survey - http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/boats/d92413/d92413.htm - the idea of this boat for £12,000 is just silly. We find that the "ultra-low-offerers" often scatter-gun these low offers around, in the hope of finding a truly desperate seller.

There are of course also overpriced boats around, often when the seller is reluctant, for a variety of reasons.
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Good looking boat.
 
Daydream believer said:
Forgetting cars for a moment ( I sold my Morgan after 4 years & got 25% more for it than I paid)
Nobody has actually said it, but let's face it, is an Anderson really worth £1500-00?
Whilst an excellent design as far as sailing is concerned, that is all they have going for them
But take into account the age - along with sails & rig. knackered upholstery, rather simplistic cooker etc & the fact that some of the past owners have probably cut & shut bits ( for want of a better phrase) really does not merit more than £ 1500-00 unless it was something special- Although i cannot see what would make it special.
Do not forget the expense that has to be found as soon as one buys it- ie surveys, insurance, replacing missing bits such as ropes & blocks, new tyres on the trailer, storage travelling too & from it whilst getting it ready to take home,just as a sample of the possibles
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In a world where Newbridge boats and Shrimpers go for relative megabucks, the Andersons - 22 & 26 - are probably underpriced even in this recession !

Average selling price recently BTW is a bit over £4,000 for a decent plainly equipped A22, that's several boats.

It depends how much one values design, performance and life-saving seaworthiness; you have to have the knowledge to know what you're looking at, or a Morgan is just the same as a 1970's Lada isn't it ?

Maybe that's why Anderson owners include Ship Pilots, Jester Challengers and Master Mariners who have come seeking these boats out.
 
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As someone who is (STILL) looking for the right boat and has recently sold my own boat, I would argue with anyone who says that the market is not a depressed buyers' market.

I have had the luxury to spend far too much time trawling the various boat for sale sites and the pattern is very clear.

Sure, there are a few very tidy boats that are snapped up but my observation is that most boats are placed on sale (by brokers) at unrealistic prices and are then heavily discounted over a couple of years until they are sold. Of course, the vendors have paid for mooring, and maintenance in the interim. (Actually, many seem to be left to deteriorate, which, no doubt, hastens their depreciation and means that they the sellers a lower price.)

A couple of separate brokers have told me to expect to pay 20% less than the asking price for any boat. (i.e. 20% less than the price that THEY have listed the boat at!) What is that nonsense about?

The plain fact is that there are lots and lots of boats out there for sale and not many buyers. With a couple of years of marina fees wasted on parking a boat that is no longer loved or sailed, many sellers are accepting low offers.
 
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