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I think the second hand price will continue to fall because running costs will increase significantly making yacht ownership even more difficult.
Second hand boat prices
- Thread starter bedouin
- Start date
lw395
Well-Known Member
Hopefully he made a few quid from his book, 'to the Baltic with Bob' or whatever it was?
Boats, like houses, cost whatever you are able to spend on them.
Residual value is a matter of opinion.
I feel the market is changing, I've raced boats where the capital value is not much more than a few years cost of ownership, I think this might become more widespread.
It's a toy, don't buy it with money you cannot afford to lose.
prv
Well-Known Member
bedouin
Well-Known Member
I am particularly impressed with the declared max draft of 4.2m - that is impressive for a bilge keeler!
I agree it is a lot of boat for the price - but that is where the market appears to be these days - there are some real bargains to be had.
steve yates
Well-Known Member
No second hand mab is a bargain if it has an old engine of unknown year and unknown hours, regardless of how many toys it carries.
scruff
Well-Known Member
That W33 does look good value, but it probably will need a new engine soonish ~ £6k, new sails again ~£4.5-6k, new standing rigging ~£3k, new standing rigging £1k before you even think about the condition the wiring is in...
So that's around £15k spent with no discernible impact on the resale value. Undoubtedly she would stand you in good stead for many years though so would have to be a boat you intended to keep for a while to justify the upgrades.
So that's around £15k spent with no discernible impact on the resale value. Undoubtedly she would stand you in good stead for many years though so would have to be a boat you intended to keep for a while to justify the upgrades.
Skylark
Well-Known Member
I was talking to a broker earlier this week and he said that boats between 35-55 ft, less than 10 years old and in good order are selling well, many to Northern Europe due to the low value of the pound.
New boat sales he tells me have stalled due to uncertainty regarding Brexit and the low pound.
New boat sales he tells me have stalled due to uncertainty regarding Brexit and the low pound.
guardian
Well-Known Member
Thats the problem withe 70's / 80's / 90's british-built boats, even if they're free its still not worth it. They'll be a symphony of chainsaws in boatyards up and down the country over the next 10 - 20 years for the reasons mentioned above and before: little time / many more hobbies to choose from that dont cost like boat ownership / too much money to justify purchase / boomers dying out / chartering / uncertain economy, etc etc..............
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dunedin
Well-Known Member
And these used but under 10 year old boats may suddenly be worth 20% less to the European buyers on 1st November if the buyer needs to pay VAT to reimport to Europe. This could hit values substantially when current market for them heavily buoyed by weak sterling attracting Euro buyers.
ryanroberts
Well-Known Member
I currently live on a boat that looks a little like a submarine:
Intend to attempt to sell to a ..pretty limited market, it's not exactly Rosie & Jim (the overall sewer tube market seems ok, thanks to London floaters), move back onto land for some time and have a thing for unsuccessful startups. Financial prudence isn't exactly my middle name. I do really like boats though.
Spyro
Well-Known Member
Might just be me but I don’t see anything special about that price for a 41 year old boat of that size good kit or not.
Sticky Fingers
Well-Known Member
Why? They’re EU VAT paid assuming you have the VAT paper trail. That won’t change AFAIK?
johnmcc
Member
In the smaller boats market (say 17' - 27') there is a glut of cheap boats with only the "character" vessels (Post-Boats, Shrimpers, Norfolk Oysters etc) holding on to the values of a few years ago. If you look at boats that are 20 years old or more, you can get a reasonable Centaur for less than £6,000. and that's with a rebuilt engine, decent sails, and headlining fixed. Some are up with an asking price of less than £3,000. As for racier models I've seen both J24 and GK24 up for less than £2,000. With care you can buy a perfectly usable 22' sailing cruiser for between £1,000 and £2,000 - with an outboard. If brexit goes badly - which seems increasingly likely to me - a lot of small boat owners won't be able to afford maintenance and mooring fees, and will either be selling for what they can get or abandoning boats. We are living in interesting times.
PHN
Well-Known Member
Very unfortunately, yes it does change in case of a no deal Brexit. There are a few threads on this forum about that topic.
Furthermore I know from a potential boat buyer in Netherlands that he asked for and received an official statement from the NL tax authorities that it does make a big difference if he would buy a boat in UK before or after Brexit in case of a no deal Brexit.
NotBirdseye
Well-Known Member
So don't buy European?
Does anyone have any kind of stats on Boat Prices or are we just going on gut feeling?
Rafiki
Well-Known Member
I would imagine the argument would be that an EU buyer after any no-deal Brexit would simply be buying an asset for xx euro's and importing into the EU from a 'third-country' . It would be irrelevant what taxes had been paid originally in the third country. So exactly the same scenario as you or I importing a boat from the USA or Thailand or S Africa, you have to pay VAT and import duty.
So I suppose the conclusion has to be that there may be a rush of European Buyers in Sept and October after which almost none and prices will then drop even further.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Scala. The advice from the EU Commission to the RYA and Cruising Association is that UK VAT paid boats in UK waters on Brexit day will lose their Union Goods status under a "No Deal" scenario, and hence an EU27 buyer would need to pay VAT on re- importing to the EU. See RYA site (though not sure if need to be a member to see detail) https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advice/current-affairs/Pages/no-deal-Brexit-scenario.aspx
Some posters on here believe that they know better than the RYA and the EU Commission advice - and hopefully it would not come to this. But I suspect that a prospective boat buyer from Germany, Holland, France etc is more likely to rely on EU Commmision statements than YBW Forum, so may decide not to take a risk buying a UK based boat unless the price reflects the VAT they may need to pay.
Hopefully your boat sale will progress smoothly and the new buyers will take it across the Channel sharpish. But if it fell through you might want to consider moving it, just in case it does deter buyers.
And with money in hand, personally I would not be rushing to spend a 6 figure sum on buying a recent motor yacht based in the UK until perhaps Jan/Feb time. The prospect of moving such a boat to the Mediteranean sun, perhaps on early retirement, seems to be popular idea for these boats (even if doesn't happen in practice). Hence there could be # a dip in the market values if there is a loss of confidence with the potential triple whammy of:
(a) EU buyers who have been propping up this high value segment stepping out of the UK market, and/or offering 20% less;
(b) worries about Shengen 90 day rules impacting usage of boats in the Med
(c) removal of red diesel fuel options.
# These are not certainties, but significant probability outcomes with current Government statements of exit on 31 October deal or no deal.
And this is a mid range scenario, before adding in the potential of some extra urgent "distress" disposals of boats IF some business owners discover their businesses are more adversely impacted by any post Brexit impacts than they anticipated.
Luxury boat prices are driven by confidence as much as hard facts. Hard to see scenarios where UK based boat sales prices in this sector rise significantly, but plenty of factors suggest could have a confidence drop mid winter. Hence to adapt the old adage, "sell in summer and go away, buy in winter after skiing holiday"
NotBirdseye
Well-Known Member
Yay for Brexit.
That's also quite a succinct explanation of what's going to happen. I had figured along the same lines that as long as there was a paper trail it'd be fine (and that *should* be true for purchases made now but moved after Brexit, but those purchased after brexit should be third countries in effect, hence the possible rush).
RupertW
Well-Known Member
The advice seems to be that even if purchases done before Brexit then if a no deal a yacht will be UK Vat paid or EU vat paid but not both. All depends on where the boat is on Brexit day.
I was also underwhelmed by the price you of such an old and inappropriately equipped boat. The basics had not been replaced recently but all sorts of gadgets added that would not help in normal use.
NotBirdseye
Well-Known Member
Apologies could you rephrase that last line, I can't make sense of it.
That is interesting that it matters where it is on Brexit day, how will this be checked? Surely the EU would continue to honor tax paid on existing vessels after all that tax has contributed to their coffers already.