SeaTalkNG quirks - interfacing Raymarine e7 and E90W

[dunedin]

We have an all Raymarine system on board, mostly connected by a SeaTalkNG (STNG) network. Circa 12 devices are connected to this, the vast majority original factory fit including E90W plotter, plus a more recent e7 plotter and AIS650, both fitted by a Raymarine agent (in France, so no longer local), which entailed some extra STNG connectors being added.
Most things seem to work OK except that I cant get them to share the cartography - and buying Navionics twice for each location is expensive.

In theory, according to the Raymarine site, this should be possible - ideally using the more modern e7 as master. In practice not managed it yet.
PS To add to the complexity two of the STNG devices listed are a STNG to SeaTalk1 convertor and a Simrad AT10 STNG to NMEA0183 converter - perhaps used for an E85001 PC interface now superseded by the use of the e7 plotter.

I have managed to confirm that both plotters are connected to the STNG - and both show statistics to confirm receiving and transmitting data (frames) across STNG.

BUT listing the connected devices
- the e7 can see 10 STNG devices - everything except the E90W and the SPX10 autopilot
- the E90W can only see 2 STNG devices - listed as Type 22068 (wind?) and Type 52243 (not been able to find out what this could be - perhaps the GPS?), but still manages to display lots of other data

Also,
- when fiddling with the e7 settings (which is already set to master), exploring the data sources it gives an error message "data selection not possible - the following devices are preventing data source selection" -then lists both my Raymarine St70+ Displays (Oddly when I did the same thing a year ago the SPX10 and E90W were also listed as issues, but not now)
- when attempting to switch off data master at the E90W it gives an error "data master alarm - warning system database not available - select a data master" - and the only available next step is to press Set as Master to revert to what it was before

So any ideas why each plotter can only see differnt sets of devices and/or how to make the E90W operate in secondary mode to the e7 to share cartography?
Don't want to mess around too much as otherwise everything works fine

 

[Fr J Hackett]

We have an all Raymarine system on board, mostly connected by a SeaTalkNG (STNG) network. Circa 12 devices are connected to this, the vast majority original factory fit including E90W plotter, plus a more recent e7 plotter and AIS650, both fitted by a Raymarine agent (in France, so no longer local), which entailed some extra STNG connectors being added.
Most things seem to work OK except that I cant get them to share the cartography - and buying Navionics twice for each location is expensive.

In theory, according to the Raymarine site, this should be possible - ideally using the more modern e7 as master. In practice not managed it yet.
PS To add to the complexity two of the STNG devices listed are a STNG to SeaTalk1 convertor and a Simrad AT10 STNG to NMEA0183 converter - perhaps used for an E85001 PC interface now superseded by the use of the e7 plotter.

I have managed to confirm that both plotters are connected to the STNG - and both show statistics to confirm receiving and transmitting data (frames) across STNG.

BUT listing the connected devices
- the e7 can see 10 STNG devices - everything except the E90W and the SPX10 autopilot
- the E90W can only see 2 STNG devices - listed as Type 22068 (wind?) and Type 52243 (not been able to find out what this could be - perhaps the GPS?), but still manages to display lots of other data

Also,
- when fiddling with the e7 settings (which is already set to master), exploring the data sources it gives an error message "data selection not possible - the following devices are preventing data source selection" -then lists both my Raymarine St70+ Displays (Oddly when I did the same thing a year ago the SPX10 and E90W were also listed as issues, but not now)
- when attempting to switch off data master at the E90W it gives an error "data master alarm - warning system database not available - select a data master" - and the only available next step is to press Set as Master to revert to what it was before

So any ideas why each plotter can only see differnt sets of devices and/or how to make the E90W operate in secondary mode to the e7 to share cartography?
Don't want to mess around too much as otherwise everything works fine

It's been a while since I messed around with Raymarine stuff and comms problems but all I can suggest is that you map out exactly in terms of connections the cabling as it may shed some light as to why certain equipment is only seen by each plotter, also and I don't know if it's still the case but some sockets could only act as data inputs and did not output data.

 

[Crowblack]

Just over a year ago bought a second Raymarine MFD to fit in the cockpit and like you wished to use only one chart chip in one - designated as the Data Master.

I was advised (by Raymarine) to join them (just the MFD's) with Sea Talk HS cabling not STNG - - it's more like an Ethernet cable and it enables the larger amount of data on the chart chip to be transferred to the second MFD in the cockpit - it must also take Sea Talk info from the instruments via the Data Master as wind, depth, AIS etc also transfers down the same cable to the cockpit MFD.

Radar comes down it too.

Both of my MFD's are current and therefore similar generation in terms of end connectors - I think your older MFD has an ethernet connector (seen on computers) whilst your later one will have Raymarines latest plug in type so you'll have to work around that. Raymarine do have a junction box so maybe a cable with each type of end could be joined - if not Ethernet plugs are easy to fit - there's plenty of video's on You Tube showing how to do it - just make sure you've got the right type.

Petehb's suggestion of mapping out your system is a good one it would show how everything was joined because it does suggest there's some "cross talk" or "no talk" going on somewhere. If on the other hand everything is going to your original MFD and all you want to do is get the data to your second MFD then Sea Talk HS (HS stands for High Speed) might be the way to go.

Only other thing I can think of is do both MFD's operate on Lighthouse software and don't know if it would conflict but is the version the same in both ?

 

[dunedin]

It's been a while since I messed around with Raymarine stuff and comms problems but all I can suggest is that you map out exactly in terms of connections the cabling as it may shed some light as to why certain equipment is only seen by each plotter, also and I don't know if it's still the case but some sockets could only act as data inputs and did not output data.

Thanks - yes, I have been carefully trying to track and document the "network topology". I now have a very pretty coloured PowerPoint diagram with over 25 different components, so better informed but as yet not much better understanding as to why only different parts of the STNG network are visible!

 

[pvb]

I'm not convinced that they're compatible for chart sharing, but I'd agree with Crowblack that you'll probably need to network them using SeaTalkHS if you want to share cartography.

 

[dunedin]

Just over a year ago bought a second Raymarine MFD to fit in the cockpit and like you wished to use only one chart chip in one - designated as the Data Master.

I was advised (by Raymarine) to join them (just the MFD's) with Sea Talk HS cabling not STNG - - it's more like an Ethernet cable and it enables the larger amount of data on the chart chip to be transferred to the second MFD in the cockpit - it must also take Sea Talk info from the instruments via the Data Master as wind, depth, AIS etc also transfers down the same cable to the cockpit MFD.

Radar comes down it too.

Both of my MFD's are current and therefore similar generation in terms of end connectors - I think your older MFD has an ethernet connector (seen on computers) whilst your later one will have Raymarines latest plug in type so you'll have to work around that. Raymarine do have a junction box so maybe a cable with each type of end could be joined - if not Ethernet plugs are easy to fit - there's plenty of video's on You Tube showing how to do it - just make sure you've got the right type.

Petehb's suggestion of mapping out your system is a good one it would show how everything was joined because it does suggest there's some "cross talk" or "no talk" going on somewhere. If on the other hand everything is going to your original MFD and all you want to do is get the data to your second MFD then Sea Talk HS (HS stands for High Speed) might be the way to go.

Only other thing I can think of is do both MFD's operate on Lighthouse software and don't know if it would conflict but is the version the same in both ?

Thanks - very helpful. Though perhaps deflated some of my hopes for an easy and inexpensive solution.

So having done some further reading and digging, it would appear that SeaTalk NG, SeaTalk1 and NMEA0183 connections are not enough. I would also need SeaTalk HS to get the plotters to share cartography !
Fortunately the E90W and e7 both seem to have the same current RayNet connector type. A 10m RayNet cable is £125 (gulp for just a cable in real world money, but not surprising in "boat units"). BUT can I just run this directly between two plotters, or do I need to buy two cables and an HS5 Network Bridge - bringing the cost up to £500 plus finding space to squeeze another sizeable box into limited space?

In theory according to the Raymarine Forum the E90W and e7 can speak over HS, in spite of mean Raymarine not implementing Lighthouse software on their previous flagship E series Wide plotters. (Though if adding Quantum radar later, the E90W couldn't see it irrespective of how we try to interface it)
http://raymarine.ning.com/forum/topics/e7-e120w-networking-question?xg_source=activity

I still have not understood why the STNG devices are not visible to each other - but this may be immaterial in practice as STNG doesn't do much for plotter integration. Thanks again

 

[pvb]

Though perhaps deflated some of my hopes for an easy and inexpensive solution.

Your best-value solution may be to sell the E90W and replace it with a current generation plotter.

 

[PaulRainbow]

My Raymarine memory is a bit rusty, but be careful with HS cable etc, it's only ethernet with waterproof connectors. To connect two devices i think you just need a crossover cable. To connect more, you need a bridge/hub/whatever they're calling it these days, which requires the sale of a kidney (or similar organ). In fact, all you need is a PC network hub, i picked one up on Ebay for 99p.

 

[dunedin]

Your best-value solution may be to sell the E90W and replace it with a current generation plotter.

Yes but circa £2,000 for a new eS97, the closest in size - before any costs for adjusting the cockpit housing and any professional help needed debugging the connections.

The E90W was circa 4,000 Eur when fitted 5 years ago - and dismissed by raymarine as "legacy" already. So this one bit of electronics depreciated circa 800Eur a year!
And even the eS97 would not be a precise match for the e7 bought just 2 years ago, although at least (for now) the software can be the same

 

[pvb]

Yes but circa £2,000 for a new eS97, the closest in size - before any costs for adjusting the cockpit housing and any professional help needed debugging the connections.

The E90W was circa 4,000 Eur when fitted 5 years ago - and dismissed by raymarine as "legacy" already. So this one bit of electronics depreciated circa 800Eur a year!
And even the eS97 would not be a precise match for the e7 bought just 2 years ago, although at least (for now) the software can be the same

How about an e95 for £1300, and sell your E90W on eBay (they go for £400-600).

 

[Cardo]

I have SeaTalk HS on the boat between the radar and the e7. These are just Cat5 ethernet cables with a fancy waterproof "Raynet" plug at one end. I have the cables connected together with an RJ45 cross over coupler, much like this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RJ45-In-L...192715?hash=item51e361dd8b:g:lCgAAOSwajVURm~B

If you need to connect more than two devices together, you will need a hub, but again you don't need the fancy Raymarine £300 or whatever model, you just need a simple ethernet hub, such as:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-Port-10...956876?hash=item1ebc3a4f4c:g:MesAAOSw4GVYLqwr
It requires power, but it's 12v, so nice and easy to wire up to boat electrics.

It's good that Raymarine use (mostly) standard Cat5 networking for SeaTalk HS, as you don't need to pay for their vastly overinflated products, aside from the end cables to connect to the MFDs themselves.

 

[dunedin]

Thanks Cardo and PaulRainbow for the suggestions re more affordable ST HS connections - and the standard rj45 connectors are probably easier to thread through tight spaces which is another benefit.
Should be easy enough to protect the crossover device from significant water/ dampness.

Still a bit confused as to why the SeaTalk NG network seems to be hiding devices from the E90W, but the bottom line seems to be that I won't get any more functionality by addressing the NG side and need to decide if I can face the physical hassle of threading a new HS cable from chart table to cockpit plotter (took many hours to dismantle everything last year to get the solar cable on that route, and cable runs getting very full)

 

[Cardo]

and the standard rj45 connectors are probably easier to thread through tight spaces which is another benefit.

Personally I would (and did) route the cables without the plugs on them and then crimped the RJ45 connector onto the cable once it was in place. Crimping RJ45 connectors is very easy to do.

Obviously I wouldn't remove the waterproof Raynet connector, that's just asking for trouble.

 

[dunedin]

In theory according to the Raymarine Forum the E90W and e7 can speak over HS, in spite of mean Raymarine not implementing Lighthouse software on their previous flagship E series Wide plotters. (Though if adding Quantum radar later, the E90W couldn't see it irrespective of how we try to interface it)

Update on this previous thread .....

I have now discovered definitively that the e7 and E90W (and equivalents) CANNOT share cartography, even with a Raynet / SeatalkHS cable.

This is contrary to what Raymarine's (apparently US only) Technical Forum suggested. Apparently this only worked with an older software version and no longer is available - hence the forum information is out of date and now wrong.
Thanks to very helpful people at Hudson Marine and then Raymarine UK for clarifying this for me.
Shame, as less capable than a previous year 2000 generation setup, but at least I found this out before I spent more cash on cables/switch and a day in the bilges trying to route cables ;-)