Seasickness & sailing schools/instructors

[mjcoon]

Also the problem with the heads,many newbies (especially female in my experience) are embarrass using the heads and some suffer in silence.

I believe seasickness is a form of motion sickness...

Mke.

 

[ukmctc]

Searush, dead right about the fear.

Can anyone remember when the use of ginger (biscuits, crystallised, etc) came in? I'm sure I don't remember it in the sixties and seventies and it's been rather a useful discovery with my family.

chinese about 6000 years ago....

 

[Sandy]

I must find and learn some new "old sailing songs" for next summer and fit new speakers to the cockpit.

May I suggest a CD by Exmouth Shanty Men might be a good place to start?

 

[rib]

port isaacs fishermens friends music is what i wake the spanish up to at the moment.

 

[Babylon]

port isaacs fishermens friends music is what i wake the spanish up to at the moment.

Good voices, hearty and and all that, but I do find them a wee bit loud and lacking in subtlety - no wonder the poor Spanish are distressed.

 

[mjcoon]

Good voices, hearty and and all that, but I do find them a wee bit loud and lacking in subtlety - no wonder the poor Spanish are distressed.

They are probably looking for the fado control! (Well, it's Iberian...)

Mike.

 

[rotrax]

One of the worst effects of sea-sickness is the ache and soreness resulting from constant retching. As soon as I've been sick (and even though I've been an instructor for 30 years I still get sick occasionally) I drink a mug of water. Next time I'm sick I bring up a mug of water. No retching, no horrible taste of bile. As soon as that bout finishes, drink another mug of water. As an instructor you can't just give up; you have to work through it. Seems to work for most people.

But if you really want to test yourself, try the Vomit Comet. Before I retired I was given a research project to study the effects of fire in spacecraft. Fire is very gravity dependent. Flames go up, but in a spacecraft there is no 'up', so how do fires burn? Apart from studying it in a spacecraft (very expensive and not very convenient) the only way to study is during free-fall in a parabolic flight.

540 knots at 24000 ft; pull up at 2g for 15 secs into a 60 deg climb; follow free-fall (while you light your fire and extinguish it) for 30 secs while the aircraft climbs to 35000 ft, goes over the top and then dives until it's in a 60 deg dive; pull out at 2g for 15 secs to be back in level flight. Wait for 3 minutes to allow time for resetting equipment, then repeat. Ten times. Then turn the aircraft round to retrace its path, and repeat again. And again. Taken together with an initial three training parabolas, each flight gets 33 parabolas. Imagine your boat in an 11000 ft wave height.

Although I could continue working through it, it took me three flights before I could make a flight without being sick. Interestingly, I was never sick during the zero g or 2g sections of the flight; it was always during the periods of level flight. Doesn't seem to work on a small boat, though; maybe that's because we never seem to get periods of level flight!

Oh, and we didn't get anything as elementary as Stugeron. We were given a mix of scopolamine (to prevent sickness) and amphetamine (to counter the sleep-inducing effects of the scopolomine). Worked reasonably well during the flight, but the scopolomine seemed to wear off before the amphetamine. But we did have some good parties in the evenings!

It is not unknown for top level race car and bike jockeys to throw up inside their helmets. Must be a bit dodgey at 150mph!

 

[eagleswing]

more..

we make up 4 thermoses before hand, 2 each full of a) hot mint tea and b) hot water, honey, lemon with a pinch of salt.. a 'universal electrolyte ' replacement. also keep biscotti biscuits and bland crackers at hand . once people get over being sick they should take in a sports drink for better electrolyte replacement.

and each crew has a personal plastic 1 gallon mini trash can, attachable by a string to the berth or to the person's neck which ever is handier..

fair winds calm seas.

PS- as an aside- we once had a family member who was so sick that the small intestine got strangulated as a result of the vomiting attacks .he got increasingly sicker, with excruciating stomache peaking at constant level 10 pain, and the stomache starting to bloat.. Rx : immediate evac to a hospital for diagnostics, stomache pump and needed surgery to free the obstruction before permanent damge set in . seasickness is one thing but if it is accompanied by unrelenting stomache pain, this may need expert attention sooner than you'll reach your port unaided. .

 

[Kukri]

We use what is called in East Asia an "air pot" - a big Thermos which can be kept closed and upright and which will dispense the hot liquid through a spout when you press down on the lid because it contains an air pump which displaces the liquid.

This lets you chock it in place and use it one handed.

Obviously you need a stainless one - Nissan Thermos is a good make. Ours has its own place on the bulkhead over the galley sink, is filled with oiling water before setting out and refilled in quiet moments.

 

[alant]

This is a bit of a hobby-horse of mine, but in light of a certain incident this week I would like to ask why so many sailing schools & instructors seem to have such a lousy understanding of both the causes & treatment of seasickness.

I am invariably sick in any sort of bouncy sea but it took me years to work out how to deal with it because all the instructors I encountered in the early days told me that a) it was psychosomatic and b) if it wasn't, it could be cured by sitting on deck staring at the horizon. What's more, at least one sailing school (which shall be nameless) would put on a dinner of takeaway pizza & copious red wine before taking relative novices cross-Channel - & another instructor took a crew out for trip round the island in a F7 with apparently no plans to feed them until they got back.

It wasn't until I got to a Yachtmaster course that anyone told me about keeping warm, eating plenty of plain carbs, avoiding fatty foods & alcohol, not getting too tired & lying down flat in the centre of the boat (thank you Hamble School instructors!). In France they're all over it - the Glenans manual has an excellent chapter on seasickness & its causes, including the three Fs (faim, froid, fatigue) - but I don't think there's anything much in the RYA books on the subject.

I don't want to prejudge the result of any enquiry on the Hot Liquid case, but I note that the crew member posting on this forum mentioned that five of them hadn't eaten for 18 hours. If the skipper had, as the guys at Hamble School did, made sure the crew were well fed before they set out & when conditions deteriorated made each crew member in turn go below for a couple of hours in a warm sleeping bag & shovelled some suitable food into them as soon as they were flat out (so they wouldn't bring it straight back up again), they might not have avoided a rescue but they certainly would have been a lot more comfortable & capable than they were.

Seasickness is a very unpleasant condition & it's very real, but there are a lot of things you can do to mitigate it - so why do so many sailing instructors still seem to be so ignorant on the subject? And why doesn't the RYA make sure that they're not?

Why do most RYA Schools put a fryup onboard for breakfast.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

' at first you're afraid you're going to die; as it goes on, you're afraid you might not '

Absolutely right. Only ever been actually sea sick once and then I really genuinely wanted to die. My inability to help myself frightened me so much that I now eat Stugeron like sweeties before and during every trip. I'm not seasick but I do get a bit sleepy at times.

 

[Corribee Boy]

I haven't really suffered from sea sickness (yet), but invariably suffer some sort of balance problems after returning to dry land. This usually takes the form of drunken falling about - traditional in those who've spent months afloat, but embarassing when leaving the gosport ferry. The effect can last some hours. Does anyone know the cause?

 

[Tidewaiter2]

IMHO

I haven't really suffered from sea sickness (yet), but invariably suffer some sort of balance problems after returning to dry land. This usually takes the form of drunken falling about - traditional in those who've spent months afloat, but embarassing when leaving the gosport ferry. The effect can last some hours. Does anyone know the cause?

Happened to me after one N Sea trip-Maldon Quay kept going up and down- couldn't face going in the pub- in January!
I think it's because you've been unconciously balancing for a long time/rough trip, esp on small craft/bumpy trips, and your inner ear needs time to reset.

Dare say someone who really knows will be along in a minute!

 

[Tidewaiter2]

It's importance of correct diet/victualling

Why do most RYA Schools put a fryup onboard for breakfast.

They do it to sort the Coastal Tie candidates out from the Dazed Kippers?
It may be that the 'fry up' is part of the course- care of crew and victualling, and/or treatment of seasick crew, shorthanded sailing opportunities??

Bashing into a v cold E headwind from Gosport back to Chi Hbr last Sunday am definitely caused me to burp a bit from time to time- I don't think it was the breakfast bacon, black pudding, egg, or fried bread, but the leek in the pork and leek sausages!
Damn alums!

 

[RobbieW]

I haven't really suffered from sea sickness (yet), but invariably suffer some sort of balance problems after returning to dry land. This usually takes the form of drunken falling about - traditional in those who've spent months afloat, but embarassing when leaving the gosport ferry. The effect can last some hours. Does anyone know the cause?

I've heard (perhaps on here?) these effects can be far longer lasting than the effects of motion sickness - in a very few cases for tens of years. Sorry dont know the cause but I'm sure it'll be something to do with the inner ear

 

[Seajet]

I've sometimes found my balance off when going ashore after a sail in bright sunshine; no idea what the cause is, it can happen after just a few hours; I know what 'sunstroke' feels like, didn't seem the same but it'd be possible. Carrying bottles of fresh water, the type with a nozzle to suck, seems a good idea if one can avoid looking like ' Jamie with the highlights in his hair and fast dinghy' !

After a few hours sail in bright sunshine I've sometimes staggered for quite a few hours later, sadly no beer involved !

 

[Pickem]

I also inevitably get seasick too, but I have learnt to deal with it by many of the methods people have mentioned on here. No I only seem to get the "fun part" of being sick, I don't get the build up or come down as long as I stay warm and eat carbs. I am also an instructor and tell my students that seasickness is nothing to be ashamed of, and then proceed to teach ways of overcoming the worse symptoms.

When you take day skipper there's a requirement to show your sea sick. It's on the syllabus the instructor has to sign to prove you weren't sea sick. Bit unfair, I did mine in 0 knots and motored all the way some people get force 11 off Dover

You don't get failed if you're seasick, you are only failed if you are persistently sea sick over the the 5 days to the extent of which you can not participate in an active sailing role.

 

[mcframe]

Just a personal opinion as I dont suffer from it unless I try to ignore the boats movement.I far more often get landsick when I come ashore!
It always suprises me on a ferry to see people walking in a straight line;sat down watching a television;walking with their head not moving up and down etc when the boat is doing exactly that.
When I am on a boat in rough weather I sway with the boat;take ite compression with my legs;move my head with its motion;I am totally aware of its motion..If forced to sit still and pretend its not happening then I begin to feel quesy-same on an aeroplane or in a car.

Years ago, I was on a rather rough cross channel hovercraft when many of the passengers started chucking^W feeling ill - I stood up, adopted a "hang ten" poise, and <zen> "moved with the ship" and was fine.

Mind you, after a similarly rough ferry trip across the Irish Sea, SWIMBO has a rule: "No cheesy whotsits afloat, ever!" ;->

 

[mcframe]

Oh, and we didn't get anything as elementary as Stugeron. We were given a mix of scopolamine (to prevent sickness) and amphetamine (to counter the sleep-inducing effects of the scopolomine). Worked reasonably well during the flight, but the scopolomine seemed to wear off before the amphetamine. But we did have some good parties in the evenings!

Hmm, Stugeron washed down with Red Bull?

I like having a couple of supermarket own-brand "sports drinks" to hand - OK it's your whole days sugar hit in one go, but... I'm not quite into the carb gels that a cycling friend uses, but they might be handy sometime.

(q.v. old hillwalking tale in favour of slow-release Kendal mint cake vs mars bars)

 

[ChattingLil]

keeping busy

two observations:

1. I get terrible sea-sickness and I even get sick on the IoW ferry. One of my worst experiences was after a 17 hour crossing where I either helmed for navigated for the whole time and we ended up being rescued by RNLI. I'd felt squiffy on and off during the day, but because of a fear of drowseyness I'd not taken stugergon but I'd not succumbed. HOWEVER as soon as the RNLI picked us up and I sat down and restest...I was the sickest I'd ever been. Horrible.

2. On the same day, my HWMO spent the whole day sleeping below after suffering terribly early on in the day - until I required him to jump up pronto, take off the engine cover and delve about in the hot, stinky engine bay for about 20 mins. With something important to focus on, he immediately forgot about the sea-sickness and got on with the job in hand and completed it. That's not to say it did him any good - he was horribly ill afterwards!


I guess my observation is, if you are suffering, stay busy or stay asleep.