Searching for v drive options

Wow, thank you for all of the comments! To clarify the set up I've attached a diagram, which I obtained last night, from Giacomo Vitale at www.altomareblu.com.

I've already been intouch with BPM who seemed to know the boat. However, I think we had a communication breakdown as they suggested returning the engines and v drives for them to rebuild, which I don't have. I've asked them for a quote, for new v drives, but I'm still waiting for this. I expect it will be laughable when it arrives, particluarly given the current £ / Euro fx rate, and certainly not likely to be "economically viable" which, for me, means being in with a chance of getting your cash back when you sell. This does of course mean rolling your sleeves up and going in with a copy of George Buehler's Backyard Boatbuilding, rather than going to High Price Marine Ltd. .... who know no limits when it comes to the size of an invoice!

I do have the Levi designed P Bracket Rudders. However, these were damaged by whoever removed them from the boat. I guess they could be repaired and I'm halfway through dismantling them for that reason.

However, I'm back to thinking twin engines with outdrives after I spotted Flora McDora (Levi Corsair) down at the Yachthaven on Saturday (picture attached) with a Volvo duoprop set up. I don't know what engines Flora has, but it occured to me that twin injected Volvo V6s would deliver reasonable performance and fuel consumption, particularly with the duoprop set up? ... Unless anyone has any other ideas / diesel alternatives?

I want to stick with two engines for fail safe / get me home reasons, but mainly because it's how she was designed.

I am concerned about the spray rails. All of the outdrive boats that I've found pictures of (exmple of Isabella attached) have the spray rails back to the transom, and I seem to remember reading somewhere - although I can't remember where excatly! - that Levi decided to put in an 'extra wedge' because of lack of grip in cornering with outdrives. Flora also has the spray rails right back to the transom ...
 
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Well, the options are pretty clear, the balance of buying the kit, fuel, ongoing maintainence, the cost of fitting the kit all have to be weighed up against making the boat original and its your choice. Its not going to be easy to find some middle ground.

No chance of finding the BPM kit that came out?

I can say that an outdrive is going in the back of my Huntsman over my dead body (and even then there'd be a fight)!

I'd guess that 10k for a pair of the right gear boxes would be a big chunk of budget but also a big chunk of the nicest solution. Cheaper engines could easily be upgraded later.

Expensive boxes, cheap engines, some shafts and props and the boat is going to be lovely.

If the budget wont run to that then a whomping big single outdrive would be my second choice. A leg is very accessible if it gets fouled and given proper installation and care reliability should not be an issue. In anycase if your breakdown in the solent you can usually step onto someone else's boat!

If you need help with the bronze castings that you have then Alan Burnard is still in his office during the week and Classicmarine are good with bronze.

Edit - Yes, indeed, Floar McDora is v nice.
 
joliette said:
not likely to be "economically viable" which, for me, means being in with a chance of getting your cash back when you sell.
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Well, as I said in my previous post, that's the critical bit of your project.
And since now you also mention re-sale value, I'm afraid that the equation becomes even trickier.
I mean, you're surely going to spend less with a couple of sterndrives. But you're probably going to fetch proportionally MUCH less than these savings, when selling the boat, compared to an example properly restored to its original specs.
What do you know of the original engines? They might well be BPM as the V-drives. If so, I'd try to talk to BPM explaining that you could consider the purchase of the full package, with two blocks and V-drives, but only if the difference with your plan B is not too big.
If the rest of the boat is in fair conditions, you could have a real show boat at the end, definitely worth more than a heavily modified one.
Btw, are you sure that the transom is as strong as the other models born with sterndrives?
These standardization concepts were not a priority, back in those days.
 
I'd like to throw a couple more thoughts in to the mix for you to consider:

Firstly with these boats I think you need to be quite careful not to load them up to heavily with machinery; they are quite sensitive to too much weight in the stern. The Triana 25 hull is probably best with less than 750kg of machinery in the back, any more than that and they don't seem to trim as well and tend to porpoise more.

Bearing in mind that your Settimo Velo is I think? a foot shorter and narrower then I would be concerned that the V.Drive version with two cast iron V8s in the back together with boxes would be carrying over 950kgs of machinery rather than the sterndrive option which would have had about 650kg. these would have handled quite differently, although I have no experience of either, to me the the shaftdrive version may not stack up quite as well. Quite a different beast than Ben's Huntsman, an extra four feet longer and mid mounted engines makes a big difference.

The good thing is you have a choice - both configurations are historically correct. So as with many things it comes down to budget.

The simplest, cheapest way [I like that..] is definitely a single sterndrive either small block [470kg] or big block [570kg] followed by a couple of second-hand 4.3 V6's [800kg] which I think would be pushing it.

Back to the spray rails, Sonny Levi's designs varied, some had them all the way back to the transom, some didn't. You are right about the chine wedges being fitted to Settimo Velo's in order to correct handling issues, in 'Designs in my time' he mentions it but if I recall correctly it was quite specifically in reference to a special order patrol boat with a pair of big petrol V8 sterndrives mounted quite far apart, I'll send you the passage if you want?

Why not contact Martin Levi, I am sure he could shed some light on your dilemma or pass it on to his father.

I wonder if your boat is not quite similar to 'Patient Lady' a boat which was described as a 'wooden Triana 25' when she was for sale a while back - something I was not aware that was ever made? Looks more like a Settimo Velo hull to me. I think the owner had restored her from a bare hull, constucted a new deck and cabin top and installed a single GM V8 diesel

PL%20launch.jpg

(Note no spray rails at the transom)

PL%20pontoon.jpg




And yes Flora McDora is very lovely, I think she has twin KAD43/44s [1100kgs but 27ft long]

If you fancy a trip over the water to Southampton you'd be welcome to come and look over my boat [with twin four pot petrols] and my neighbour Pete's [with twin V6 Petrols] two doors down. Ben thought it was most amusing the other day when he drove past and saw them parked up in our respective front drives.... - praps we should rename the road 'Sonny Levi Way'?
 
Well, I've had a price from BPM for the v drives: 'We can offer to you two VD 65 at the price of 1810 euro less 15% discount each, ex works'.

I think there could be a zero missing here?! .... I've queried it.
 
See? These days, I've yet to meet a builder (of anything, mind, be it a V drive or a whole boat) not willing to quote reasonable prices if the alternative is no business at all.
While you're at that, you might well ask for a couple of their V6, or even V8 if you want to exagerate. They were masterpieces for their time, and still more advanced than many modern US blocks also these days. And most importantly, they would be a gorgeous rigging for your S.V.
 
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jfm said:
Tricky one Joliette. Unless I'm missing something the ZFs and twindisc do not provide the 8 inches or so of sideways offset you are asking for; they are designed to be mounted vertically. The idea of mounting them "twisted" doesn't fly, as you will then have an angle on the horizontal plane between the propshaft (which must run fore-aft) and the engine, so your engines will need to be mounted splayed at an angle as you look at them from above. Technically possible, but, urgh, doesn't tick the box of an authentic looking restoration of a Settimo Velo imho.

And you'd have to get your trigonometry hat on, because the more twisted you mount the g'box the smaller your V angle becomes on the vertical plane, so to get your 16deg on the vertical plane you'd have to get a (say) 25deg box (not sure if anyone does one) becuase you'd "waste" some of the angle by the horizontal plane component if you mounted it twisted. Simple enough maths, though you would (I'd guess) end up with less than 8 inches at the flywheel end and much more at t'other end, then you'd want toblerone shaped fuel tanks, urgh, and that again spoils your restoration

So it seems to me you have to scour the world hoping to find a pair of restorable offset BPMs (I wonder if they went in lots of other non-Levi boats?) or go to outdrives

Good luck with the project, soundds very interesting
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Actually, ZF do make horizontally offset V drive boxes as per this one fitted to my soon to be ex Ferretti 46

DSCN0681001-1.jpg
 
BPM

No way of knowing without looking at dataplate.

However I was involved in the re-power of a pair of old ex Trinity House Nelsons which orginally had Cummins triple fives.

Operator wanted to free up engine room space and fit Scania D9's. We went though data sheets with Peter Nelems of ZF, he looked at the job but had nothing, advised us to look at BPM's which we ended up using. BPM have their own distrubutor not ZF.

Who knows what arm twisting a big league builder can exert in Italy.

You would search in vain to find anything even similar in ZF catlogue, picture lifted from BPM website tells the complete story.
 
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