Sealine for sale again

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deleted User YDKXO
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Whitelighter said:
I totally disagree - the boats now are the best they have produced in years - the joinery and quality interior fit out is on bar with other prestige builders and the designs will be copied as they are breaking the mould.

Perhaps the issue is the cost of retooling and moving upmarket is expensive and the sale prices aren't moving up as quickly. The problem is lots of people like the sealine, but if you have to pay as much for one as a Fairline of princess you might opt for the historically more prestige brand
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I agree. Sealine cannot compete head to head with Fairline and Princess so they've always had to plough their own furrow to some extent. Over the years they have majored on space and practicality but IMHO their current range of boats has added a bit of pizazz to the mix. Not only that but the quality and finish seems to have improved as well. Personally I like the styling of their current range; they look edgy and modern as well as offering a huge amount of space. IMHO, Oxford are not pulling out because Sealine are producing a bad range of products, more because they've realised that the global powerboat market isn't going to grow anywhere near as fast as they'd hoped. As I said, I always thought that Oxford was a strange owner for Sealine because normally this type of investment company looks to invest in high growth markets where they can be in and out in a few years with a sizeable profit and thats not the kind of owner a boat manufacturer needs
 
I personally like the styling progress of the Sealines. They have grown on me, a bit like Bangle BMW's. For me Sealine is too reliant on 2 boats specs, the SC35 and F42, both just about class leaders. Their investment in the dealership in Southampton did not make much sense to me, needing something like what EBY offers Fairline. With aspirational products, during a time of extended recession in the Western world, cashflow is the killer. The EBY model appears to work very well, and perhaps Sealine have too much inventory?
 
Unfotunately from my own experience I have to say that Sealine's payments have been really dire. Fortunately wedo have creditinsurance which would kick in, eventiually, in the event of the worst case scenario. It's a real shame as they do have some interesting boats and many of the guys who work there are really god to deal with.
 
Whilst I don't profess to be an expert, there are two things that I think will not have helped sales, at least in the UK. One as already mentioned is overly ambitious pricing on everything above the SC35, and the other the move away from Ancasta (wide geographic coverage with motivated commission drives salesman) to until recently just one owned sales centre plus a few other dealers. Burton Waters jumped to Princess last year too.
 
You need to go to spec savers WL. I compared the latest SC35 and SC38 with fairline and prinny and sunseeker at Cannes last Sept and I can say I was surprised to see how poor the joinery, fibre glass work, mastic jointing and design were on the newer Sealines compared to the other brit brands. The only thing I could say that was positive is that they were wide arsed compared to others resulting much more room for LOA and were 'distinctive' compared to the rest that all have similar design features. You sure can spot a Sealine from a mile off but not so with the F/P/S boats necessarily. But improved quality over previous designs did not come across at all.
 
wakeup said:
You need to go to spec savers WL. I compared the latest SC35 and SC38 with fairline and prinny and sunseeker at Cannes last Sept and I can say I was surprised to see how poor the joinery, fibre glass work, mastic jointing and design were on the newer Sealines compared to the other brit brands. The only thing I could say that was positive is that they were wide arsed compared to others resulting much more room for LOA and were 'distinctive' compared to the rest that all have similar design features. You sure can spot a Sealine from a mile off but not so with the F/P/S boats necessarily. But improved quality over previous designs did not come across at all.
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Said by a Jeanneau owner???!!!! I looked at a Prestige 34 and it was true mass produced rubbish. I for one am going for an SC35 (deposit paid yesterday).

Long Live Sealine!!!!!!!
 
diligaf said:
Said by a Jeanneau owner???!!!! I looked at a Prestige 34 and it was true mass produced rubbish. I for one am going for an SC35 (deposit paid yesterday).

Long Live Sealine!!!!!!!
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This is very bad form - slagging other forumites boats off isn't going to get you anywhere, except perhaps on a load of 'ignore' lists. As I read it, Wakeup was just making a comment about relative quality between Sealine and the other major Brit brands; the fact that he currently owns a Jeanneau is neither here nor there.

Cheers
Jimmy
 
I never said my yoghurt pot was better than a Sealine, please join the line for specsavers. I like my little yoghurt pot but when I up grade which I am now considering it won't be a Sealine. I also used to own a Maxum which was fun and was more yoghurty pot than my Jeanneau but I had a great time in it and would not dissuade anyone from buying one. Next boat will be be Fline or Prinny for sure. If you read my response it was to state 'my' opinion that Sealine are further away than ever from approaching Fline/Prinny quality levels of build and design.

All in my humble yoghurt pot opinion.
 
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diligaf said:
I looked at a Prestige 34 and it was true mass produced rubbish.
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I'm on my fourth motor boat since 2004, a Prestige 34, having previously owned Sealines (two) and a Hardy. The Prestige 34 does not have the joinery of the Brit boats, but it's very intelligently designed, cleverly built and there is nothing wrong with it's overall engineering and behind the scenes finish, which is by far the best of any boat I've owned. It's fine for you not to like, but calling it rubbish is ill informed nonsense and offensive.

Sealine SC35 is a very nice boat, but when we were looking (Autumn '11) at used boats could not justify the extra £50k+. Good luck with your purchase.
 
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Deleted User said:
It always seemed a bit of an odd fit to me and despite Oxford saying they were in it for the long term.
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P.E. investors and long term strategies, now that's an oxymoron, if I've ever seen one.
When you hear this sort of statements, you must bear in mind that there can only be two reasons behind them: either they are lying, or they're not good at their job.
Either ways, it's not good news for the target company involved.
 
diligaf said:
Said by a Jeanneau owner???!!!! I looked at a Prestige 34 and it was true mass produced rubbish. I for one am going for an SC35 (deposit paid yesterday).

Long Live Sealine!!!!!!!
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Good for you. Vote with your wallet. I just hope you don't lose your deposit :cool:
 
wakeup said:
You need to go to spec savers WL. I compared the latest SC35 and SC38 with fairline and prinny and sunseeker at Cannes last Sept and I can say I was surprised to see how poor the joinery, fibre glass work, mastic jointing and design were on the newer Sealines compared to the other brit brands. The only thing I could say that was positive is that they were wide arsed compared to others resulting much more room for LOA and were 'distinctive' compared to the rest that all have similar design features. You sure can spot a Sealine from a mile off but not so with the F/P/S boats necessarily. But improved quality over previous designs did not come across at all.
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I was basing my comments on the very latest F48 that they had at sibs and boot. Very nice high gloss walnut joinery and it all felt very high quality.
 
wakeup said:
I never said my yoghurt pot was better than a Sealine, please join the line for specsavers. I like my little yoghurt pot but when I up grade which I am now considering it won't be a Sealine. I also used to own a Maxum which was fun and was more yoghurty pot than my Jeanneau but I had a great time in it and would not dissuade anyone from buying one. Next boat will be be Fline or Prinny for sure. If you read my response it was to state 'my' opinion that Sealine are further away than ever from approaching Fline/Prinny quality levels of build and design.

All in my humble yoghurt pot opinion.
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What a splendidly restrained reply. You win on points!
 
That is fair enough WL. Mine were based on seeing Sept '12 boats from Sealine, Princess, Fairline and Sunseeker at Cannes so out of date peut-être. I do hope that Sealine have raised their game as much as you have indicated because 4 strong boat builders in the UK wouldn't be a bad thing and I mean strong on quality.
 
It's insolvent ( basically without help of parent Co) because folks are buying the competitors boats in the narrow sectors sealine operate in .
Land locked - they lack long term vision of going larger than what they can truck out.This severly limits the even the most optimistic growth forecasts for a so called " venture capitalist Co in it for the long term"
The owners realise the brand is weak ( except in the UK) in nearly all of the rivals major markets -eg France ,Spain ,no chance in Italy well oversubscribed with builders - likewise the US ,
Next up emerging markets like China,and Pascific rim countries - they wade in at Pred 80's and Priny 95's etc as starter boats , Sealine don,t get a look in .They have missed the boat .
So with the EU Genaral ecomonic situation - the sub 60 fter,s are the hardist hit - sales wise
Sunseeker/ princess are shifting much bigger ( profitable) stuff onto a global market, kinda compensates for the shrunken sub 60 ftEU market , they have critical mass in brand image cultivated over he last 40 years - its payback time .
Sealine has nothing in the locker brand wise .
2011 Sealine opened Sealand France in LaNapoule ,next to Sunseeker.Fr and Princess.Fr .It was opened at the la Napoule Easter boat show ( check out this month mag advert) .it shut within 8 months did not make it to 2012 - fancy glamourously decorated office - gone before the year end !
Re Jeanneau - and Beneteaux , iam afraid French are fiercely loyal to there own , and to be fair they are great sea boats practical and priced accordingly ,with commensurate build quality .They are not rubbish sales are holding up in market .
Future of Fairline - tough one - I personally think they are on a knife edge .As I said modal range is just not broad enough in today's / tomorrow's global market ,- or they are not ' niche' enough or small enough yet .
I Predict Fairline next in the financial stocks ., 2014 ish ?
 
Wow, you know an awful lot.. are you able to predict after 2014 ish or is that about as far as you can see?

Portofino said:
It's insolvent ( basically without help of parent Co) because folks are buying the competitors boats in the narrow sectors sealine operate in .
Land locked - they lack long term vision of going larger than what they can truck out.This severly limits the even the most optimistic growth forecasts for a so called " venture capitalist Co in it for the long term"
The owners realise the brand is weak ( except in the UK) in nearly all of the rivals major markets -eg France ,Spain ,no chance in Italy well oversubscribed with builders - likewise the US ,
Next up emerging markets like China,and Pascific rim countries - they wade in at Pred 80's and Priny 95's etc as starter boats , Sealine don,t get a look in .They have missed the boat .
So with the EU Genaral ecomonic situation - the sub 60 fter,s are the hardist hit - sales wise
Sunseeker/ princess are shifting much bigger ( profitable) stuff onto a global market, kinda compensates for the shrunken sub 60 ftEU market , they have critical mass in brand image cultivated over he last 40 years - its payback time .
Sealine has nothing in the locker brand wise .
2011 Sealine opened Sealand France in LaNapoule ,next to Sunseeker.Fr and Princess.Fr .It was opened at the la Napoule Easter boat show ( check out this month mag advert) .it shut within 8 months did not make it to 2012 - fancy glamourously decorated office - gone before the year end !
Re Jeanneau - and Beneteaux , iam afraid French are fiercely loyal to there own , and to be fair they are great sea boats practical and priced accordingly ,with commensurate build quality .They are not rubbish sales are holding up in market .
Future of Fairline - tough one - I personally think they are on a knife edge .As I said modal range is just not broad enough in today's / tomorrow's global market ,- or they are not ' niche' enough or small enough yet .
I Predict Fairline next in the financial stocks ., 2014 ish ?
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Last published turnovers:

Sunseeker £288m (peaked at £304m 2010)
Princess £207m ( £213m 2009)
Fairline £79m ( £130m 2007)
Sealine £33m ( £ 61m 2004)

Says it all I fear - Portofino has it right, much as it seems crazy to most to see British builders moving bigger and bigger and abandoning most of us, business wise it has clearly been the right thing to do.
 
MapisM said:
or they're not good at their job.
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IMHO, it was probably the latter. They misjudged the probability of a recovery in Sealine's market. They'd likely seen the start of a recovery of the boat sales market in the USA a couple of years ago and assumed that Sealine's traditional markets in Europe would recover in the same way only they hadn't reckoned on the fact that Europe's boat market was still going down the pan thanks to the Eurozone crisis. Then they probably judged that trying to forge new markets for Sealine in Asia, S America and the USA would require a huge further investment that they weren't willing to make so they decided to cut their losses
 
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