Seahorse Trust petition reaches 100,000

oldharry

oldharry

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Upset at Defra's decision to defer Studland pending further discussion, our old friend from the Seahorse trust started an online petition to 'Tell Defra to change its mind'

This can be found at: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/208/992/778/reverse-the-decision-on-the-studland-bay-mcz/

You will find a couple of interesting new NGM type 'facts' we didnt know before. NGM is thrilled to bits as he now has over 104,000 signatories from 68 different countries He is convinced now he has enough support to swing the day. after all if a 'small handful of yachtsmen' can influence Defra (thats us) then surely 100,000 + signatures from people who know the facts as he has presented them will surely swing things back again.

"Fear not faithful handful!" We have taken expert advice and are advised we do not need to worry unduly, as NGM has so completely failed to understand the governments position and protocols. We have nevertheless written to the Minister. It will reach his eyes. We have made sure of that. A torrent of abuse has been unleashed against us by NGM, and we receive rude emails sometimes two or three times a day.

Just ask yourself - as I am sure NGM does - why did Defra listen to US, and not be taken in by all his reams of 'expert advice' and 'scientific' data?

See BORGs comment on this:

http://boatownersresponse.org.uk/Comment-on-SHT-News.pdf
 
oldharry said:
Upset at Defra's decision to defer Studland pending further discussion, our old friend from the Seahorse trust started an online petition to 'Tell Defra to change its mind'

This can be found at: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/208/992/778/reverse-the-decision-on-the-studland-bay-mcz/.......

Just ask yourself - as I am sure NGM does - why did Defra listen to US, and not be taken in by all his reams of 'expert advice' and 'scientific' data?

See BORGs comment on this:

http://boatownersresponse.org.uk/Comment-on-SHT-News.pdf
Click to expand...

DEFRA? Isn't that the organisation that completely ignored scientific advice about Badger culling? And prefers the advice of powerful pressure groups to its scientific advisors? Or am I thinking of another DEFRA?
 
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Well, what he says is comical. Seems you naughty boat owners who anchor there are now responsible for the beach disappearing and the cliffs crumbling, and coming soon, pestilence, plague and swarms of locusts!

BORG, keep up the good work.
 
What I find genuinely hard to understand is why supposedly reputable academic organisations such as 'Southampton Universities
National Oceanography Centre' and others continually allow themselves to be quoted by the SHT and therefore be associated with such ludicrously biased and scientifically laughable statements. Surely their own credibility as academics must be undermined by being said to support such drivel. He frequently backs up his nonsense by saying that 'X and Y' University have been working with us and WE assert that... blah blah blah. How on earth can any credible scientist support the rubbish he puts out as 'facts' with no substantiation whatsoever! I know that no lecturer I ever studied under would permit such sweeping, emotive and obviously biased statements to be included in any paper I submitted without clear empirical evidence to support my claims.

Do they know what is being said in their names???
 
KevO,

" Do they know what is being said in their names??? "

I have often wondered that myself, and one likely explanation is that he bombards everyone on his circulation list so much that it goes straight to the junk folder for a lot of people and organisations, it must surely be something like this or he would have been stamped on.

The good side of this is that the idiot Packham who sided with SHT and called boat owners ' gin swilling wreckers of the environment ' had signed up in this latest farcical petition, so when it's all proven for what it is, he should be exposed as willing to sign up to any populist movement which might help keep him on the telly, without having the integrity or professionalism to check facts...
 
Maybe these 'Noble Seats of Learning' should be shown exactly what is being said under their banner of support and asked to comment on the scientific veracity of the claims being made. If they have indeed been working so closely with the SHT then surely they must have been involved in the gathering and reviewing of the evidence that supports his claims?
 
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Just a thought. Under the constitution of a charity, the trustees are responsible for corporate governance and can be held in breach if there are misdemeanours.

The trustees of SHT are:
Dr David Gibson (Chair)
Charlotte Coleman
Jennie Read
Allie Clark
Shane Benzie

Do we know them? Are they persons of repute? DO they know that SHT is making dodgy allegations in their name?
 
Twister_Ken said:
Just a thought. Under the constitution of a charity, the trustees are responsible for corporate governance and can be held in breach if there are misdemeanours.

The trustees of SHT are:
Dr David Gibson (Chair)
Charlotte Coleman
Jennie Read
Allie Clark
Shane Benzie

Do we know them? Are they persons of repute? DO they know that SHT is making dodgy allegations in their name?
Click to expand...

Dr Gibson is Director of the National Marine Museum at Plymouth, the others I dont know. Dr Eva Durrant who also dives a lot with NGM is also from NMA, so they are very cosy. NMAs status is unclear: is it a genuine scientific research organisation or just a commercial tourist trap posing as one? If the former then they should be very worried about what NGM is up to. Anybody got any contacts there rather than 'cold calling' them?
 
KevO said:
What I find genuinely hard to understand is why supposedly reputable academic organisations such as 'Southampton Universities
National Oceanography Centre' and others continually allow themselves to be quoted by the SHT and therefore be associated with such ludicrously biased and scientifically laughable statements. Surely their own credibility as academics must be undermined by being said to support such drivel. He frequently backs up his nonsense by saying that 'X and Y' University have been working with us and WE assert that... blah blah blah. How on earth can any credible scientist support the rubbish he puts out as 'facts' with no substantiation whatsoever! I know that no lecturer I ever studied under would permit such sweeping, emotive and obviously biased statements to be included in any paper I submitted without clear empirical evidence to support my claims.

Do they know what is being said in their names???
Click to expand...

Marlynspyke and I sat opposite Dr Collins at a meeting 18 months ago. Marlynspyke was giving a presentation spoofing Collins work, so I dont think he likes us very much! But since then he has been significantly silent, never responds to anything, and it seems to me is wanting to quietly remove himself from the scene. I have another posisble contact at NOC Soton, and can give that little Hornets nest a poke if necessary.

But I think NGM has given himself more than enough rope to hang himself anyway without us getting our hands too dirty! BORG still has to see this one through with NE and Defra as a credible organisation: but I have no problem with loading the scales the right way if necessary to shift the opposition!
 
Twister_Ken said:
Just a thought. Under the constitution of a charity, the trustees are responsible for corporate governance and can be held in breach if there are misdemeanours.

The trustees of SHT are:
Dr David Gibson (Chair)
Charlotte Coleman
Jennie Read
Allie Clark
Shane Benzie

Do we know them? Are they persons of repute? DO they know that SHT is making dodgy allegations in their name?
Click to expand...

Shane Benzie is a running coach in Reading. He's also a diver - maybe the new ST?

Charlotte Coleman can be found on a few old webpages running seaside camps for children. She is described as a "Marine Biologist" but I can't find any institutional affiliation and neither "Academic Search Complete" nor the "BioOne" database show any publications.

I can't find Allie Clark anywhere. Google suggests than an "Alison Clark" has an interest in seahorses, but beyond that, nothing. Again, no publications.

I can't find anything about "Jenny Read" but there was a "Jenny Paton" associated with the Seahorse Trust for many years. NGM threatened to sue both me and IPC for defamation when I previously pointed out the results of a Google search on that name, although it was nothing remotely discreditable and although I am not at all sure how Person A sues for defamation against Person B.

However ... let's not get too hung up about this. The trustees of a charity need to make sure that its finances are kept in order. They don't have to be experts in the field of operation, and many enthusiastic and kind hearted amateurs do great work in overseeing charities. I would be much more interested to know whether the academics cited as supporters by NGM agree with his claims.
 
Yes, I think KevO has a very good point. OH, Dr Collins may support NGM, but does the University the support support the at best commercial truth being used by NGM?
 
oldharry said:
Marlynspyke and I sat opposite Dr Collins at a meeting 18 months ago. Marlynspyke was giving a presentation spoofing Collins work, so I dont think he likes us very much! But since then he has been significantly silent, never responds to anything, and it seems to me is wanting to quietly remove himself from the scene. I have another posisble contact at NOC Soton, and can give that little Hornets nest a poke if necessary.
Click to expand...

I have just made a fairly comprehensive FOI request to Southampton University, regarding their relationship with the SHT.
 
I consider myself an environmentalist. I certainly wouldn't want to see the demise of seahorses in Studland or anywhere else.
But I'm starting to wish they were extinct so I wouldn't have to see another thread about them!
 
ronsurf said:
I consider myself an environmentalist. I certainly wouldn't want to see the demise of seahorses in Studland or anywhere else.
But I'm starting to wish they were extinct so I wouldn't have to see another thread about them!
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I think most sailors are environmentalists - we like clean water and interesting places to go. It would be a great shame if one man's hysterical dislike of recreational boating drove a wholly unnecessary wedge between two groups with most of the same goals.
 
ronsurf said:
I consider myself an environmentalist. I certainly wouldn't want to see the demise of seahorses in Studland or anywhere else.
But I'm starting to wish they were extinct so I wouldn't have to see another thread about them!
Click to expand...

This is what is so irritating about this guy. Theres not one of us would willingly do anything to harm seahorses, or destroy their habitat and all the rest of it. Or at least there wasnt befroe this started - many of us feel increasingly jaundiced about the whole thing. BORG has already been proactive in taking steps to help protect the Bay (which is a lot more than NGM or SHT can claim).There is an distinct possibility that he has in fact done quite serious damage by gallumphing round and chasing the seahorses away. he has certainly cost the government in excess of half a million quid trying to prove his pet theories. An Australian seahorse specialist drew our attention to a study which showed that when seahorses have been handled, they are far more likely to be attacked by predators. Its not clear why yet. But NGM just LOVES catching them and pulling their tails under the pretext of measuring them. Then he wonders why they have all gone?
 
Seajet said:
More like a hysterical dislike of sharing the best beach in Britain with anyone but his chums, and wanting to be paid to do it !
Click to expand...
I think Andy hits the nail on the head here: why else does NGM want to get control of it?

How condescending of NGM to agree to 'allow boats to continue to use the Bay, provided we have EFMs!' (Which he expects us to pay for, too!).
 
oldharry said:
Marlynspyke and I sat opposite Dr Collins at a meeting 18 months ago. Marlynspyke was giving a presentation spoofing Collins work, so I dont think he likes us very much! But since then he has been significantly silent, never responds to anything, and it seems to me is wanting to quietly remove himself from the scene. I have another posisble contact at NOC Soton, and can give that little Hornets nest a poke if necessary.

But I think NGM has given himself more than enough rope to hang himself anyway without us getting our hands too dirty! BORG still has to see this one through with NE and Defra as a credible organisation: but I have no problem with loading the scales the right way if necessary to shift the opposition!
Click to expand...

Not sure Collins is still at the University. When I met him there 7 or 8 years ago he had just taken early retirement and was part time. My wife and I just like you found him long on claims and rhetoric and short on answers to questions or any evidence to back his claims. Another charlatan living on past glories.
 
JumbleDuck said:
I think most sailors are environmentalists
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I think I must disagree. Do we read the same forum? If it isn't "the majority" then there's certainly a vocal bunch keen to use puerile derogatory terms for anyone active in any form of environmental protection. Recent threads have advocated use of TBT antifoul and spoken negatively of "tree huggers" seeking to restrict the poisons yachties put into the water. During the study with the buoyed-off area in Studland people were advocating ignoring it and deliberately anchoring there to disrupt it. There are certainly a non-trivial number of members of this forum who *exactly* fit the SHT stereotype.

Part of the reason why the junk "research" from these people is so damaging is that it's going to give ammunition to the stereotypes to disregard any future environmental impact studies as the work of fanatics.
 
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