Seagull outboard - stopping?

cliffordpope

cliffordpope

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I've just aquired a Britsh Seagull 40 of 1964 vintage. It looks as if it has been well maintained - nice shiny black undented petrol tank, and complete with oiled canvas cover that I assume is the original. I've checked the spark plug and carburettor bowl - both in pristine condition, so I am all ready to try starting.
However, I can't see any way of stopping the engine. There doesn't appear to be a switch, and the spark plug is enclosed in a plastic cover, with no earthing lever. Obviously if I close the petrol valve it will stop after a few minutes, but that's going to make manoeuvring a bit dodgy with no clutch or reverse.
Am I missing something obvious? I know the usual problem is reputed to be getting them to start, but I am just fearful of getting this thing roaring away in its tub of water and being unable to turn it off.
 
Hi,

There is no kill switch on a seagull. The throttle should be adjusted so that when you throttle down completely, the engine stops - i.e. tickover is above the minimum point on the throttle. The engine should already be set up this way unless someone has increased the idle speed. It's all very basic and simple on a seagull.
 
The long way is to switch the fuel off. If you can wait for the engine to run down then the carb bowl will be empty as well, which is an advantage when you tip it on its side. Otherwise, if you drop the throttle to minimum that should be enough, blocking the air intake with the palm of your hand helps as well. But don't forget to tip it over on the ground for five minutes before putting it in the boot of the car.
 
Yes, you close the throttle to kill the engine.
However, it's best to close the fuel first so the carbouretta (that's not how it's spelt, is it?) is empty of fuel, otherwise it spills everywhere when you tilt or carry the engine. A useful skill is to judge just how far it will run after the fuel is cut off!
 
I don't know what fuel mix you have been advised to use but you can change the carburettor needle to allow it to run on a much leaner and more environmentally friendly mix (25:1?). The plug is also less likely to coke up on this leaner mix. Check with a Seagull parts supplier. Your Seagull may have been converted already.
 
But an annoying skill is to misjudge it, fall short, and not be able to restart. I find them worse to restart when hot and having just opened the tap to refill the bowl. Seems to be the best opportunity to flood them.
I replaced mine with a motor with forward-neutrul-reverse. For a swinging mooring it's a boon.
Still use the Seagull on the tender now and then and on Ullswater (on a boat there, you understand) It's also a usefull carry-aboard for the Heron.
Don't rely on the wire spring in the filler cap to retain the cap. It can easily pop out of the tank neck. Make sure it's securely holding the cap in place before refilling. They aren't cheap and don't float.
 
One for the health and safety boys and girls:
Why is it not a good idea to stop an overeager Seagull by laying the flat of your knarly and calloused ,salty and toughened hand against the side of the flywheel as we used to do as kids (copying the old hands)
 
Many thanks everyone. I knew there must be a simple answer.
I've looked up information on petrol/oil ratios, and it seems mine is before the date when they can be converted. So it's 10:1.
 
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However, I can't see any way of stopping the engine.


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That isnt the usual Seagull problem! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Put the flat of your hand over the plastic bellmouth of the carb. Thats what its for. Turning off the fuel tap might not work (the taps usually leak) and will take time to empty the carb bowl anyway.

Alternatively, you could do what I do and get your starter cord tangled round the prop!
 
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Just ask SWMBO to pull off the plug lead..it will stop immediately.

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So will marital rights /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Typical of seagulls I have used / seen ... is "Close fuel tap" ... let it run out over the last few yards of trip ... then carb etc. is dry - can be placed in back of car etc. without emptying everywhere.

Others mention setting throttle to close carb jet and stop the engine that way ... IMHO I prefer the fuel tap method ... and if I need to stop it quick ... then hand over air-intake or even on some the choke "plate" will do it. As it's a start and go machine normally - except for the later models ... the fuel one is for me ....

Now you may get a few replies advising getting rid of the Seagull ... IMHO - they are reliable ... simple and do their job well ....

Starting .... even ones left to gum up in shed etc. have all started for me .... One in particular - a Featherweight (40-) - the guy gave it to me foc ... saying "here mate - been in shed for donkeys years .... maybe it works maybe not .... it's yours.." Got it home - Filled tank - Put it in the bin .... pulled cord maybe 3 - 4 times after holding the "carb-button" down to flood .... started a treat ... used it for about 4 yrs and sold on with boat still in GWO ...
 
[ QUOTE ]
Typical of seagulls I have used / seen ... is "Close fuel tap" ... let it run out over the last few yards of trip ...
Others mention setting throttle to close carb jet and stop the engine that way ... IMHO I prefer the fuel tap method ...
Now you may get a few replies advising getting rid of the Seagull ... IMHO - they are reliable ... simple and do their job well ....

[/ QUOTE ]

The old Seagull handbook says the correct method is to use the throttle.

Hand over the carb chokes the engine, fouls the plug, and can make starting even more difficult than usual!. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Hand on flywheel - well if its gnarled and calloused enough - and the tickver is not set too high..... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Draining the carb is a good thing particularly on 10:1 engines (no not 9:1 - If you have 10 litres of fuel, add 1 litre of oil), as if the petrol evaporates off, the oil residue can clog the jets, leading to.. difficult starting /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif It also makes a vile mess of the car when you take it home. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

The biggest problem with them is they are environmentally disasterous. They leave a visible trail of oil on the water, and the noise of an early one without the induction silencer (the what??? - can't hear you!) is audible at 1.4 mles range on a quiet day - mostly induction noise, not exhaust silencing.

Which is a pity as they are very tough engines IF you happen to get a good one.

A bad one is a nightmare - i ad a brand new 40. Second time out, it refused to start. Even back a the works they could not make it go, and eventually replaced it.
 
According to the Instruction handbook : "To stop the motor close the throttle fully and shut the fuel tap"

Personally I find setting the idle speed so low that it stops when the throttle is closed causes as many problems through it stopping when I do not intend it to as shutting off the fuel and waiting. On the way out to the mooring I shut the fuel tap a bit before I get there and then just hang on for a half a minute or so while the last of the petrol runs out. On the way back ashore I shut the fuel off so that it stops before I reach the slipway and just row or scull the last few yards.

BTW At small throttle openings the engine speed may be varied to a limited extent by raising or lowering the tiller. It says that in the handbook and it does work. You can adjust things so that the engine does not stop with the tiller in its normal horizontal position but does when it is lowered.

An important website to know about if you own a Seagull is John Williams' Saving old Seagulls site

I am surprised that 1964 is too old to convert to 25:1. Basically those engines with Villiers carbs can be but those with Amal cabs cannot. You will find all the details on the above site together with the markings on the needles to identify them. The needles for 25:1 are also available from there.

If you need any bits of the handbook quoting PM me.
 
Yes, that's right. Apparently the bearings changed in 1968, so pre that date, it is not advisable to run on 25:1. Get best quality TCw3 - in my experience it doesn't readily oil up the plug at 10:1. I find the amount of two stroke smoke a curious thing - it almost varies from engine to engine. I once had a Suzuki 2hp, which apparently was 100:1. Even at that ratio it loved to spew out blue smoke....whereas I have a seagull 1959 102, which runs very cleanly on 10:1. No doubt there are technical reasons for all this...where is Kawasaki?
 
I was given mine by a chap who had stored it in the garage for maybe 20 years, since his grandchildren grew up. It has nearly always worked reliably, despite receiving no maintainance while I've had it. Only time it didn't work, after much searching, turned out to be due to the carb being a little loose and twisting so the float stuck! Lets face it, there's not much to go wrong. It is noisy and oily, and leaning over the spinning flywheel to turn the fuel tap is always an interesting exercise! But, it's perfect for me, I can hop in the punt and go fishing at a moments notice, when ever I get the chance.
 
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