Seacock Advice

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Sailfree

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I have a 2005 Jeaneau 43'.

In Hamble Marina and in water 49 weeks each year.

Q1. Does anyone know if Jeanneau fitted seacocks are DZR bronze as original?

Q2 Even if they are DZR is it a good idea to replace at 9yrs?

Q3 Do you recommend plastic or DZR bronze any makes to avoid?

Q4 What supplier or are ASAP as good as any?

Currently starting a renovation project and boat will be out of water in shed this winter so if I need to replace one I would prefer peace of mind and do the lot!

Getting the standing rigging replaced while mast is down as boat has had charter use but hopefully will soon be mine for 100% use!!

Tried using the search facility and got lost in whether to bond or not, what skaflex or locktight etc

Thanks in advance.
 
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Force Four supply DZR, and give good advice, especially Bursledon shop. I would use Sikaflex 291, bed in lightly almost home, leave to set 48 hours then pull up the locknut firmly, ensuring the fitting cannot spin.
 
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Inspect them carefully for signs of dezincification.
If none found assume them to be DZR and dont fix what's not broken.

If replacing them Forespar Marelon valves are the plastics valves and skin fittings to be considered.

Never heard any complaints about ASAP. generally recommended on these forums in fact.


Do not bond metal skin fittings/ seacocks...... If made of a corrosion resistant material . ( bronze, DZR or even stainless steel ) they do not need the protection of anodes. Bonding could even cause problems that other wise would not exist.
 
Sailfree said:
Q1. Does anyone know if Jeanneau fitted seacocks are DZR bronze as original?
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I don't know, but if I had to bet I'd take a punt on plain brass. Our 1998 Maxi was all brass (with visible, though not yet dangerous, dezincification) and I would expect the rush for brass to still have been going strong in 2005. If any of them are chrome-plated then they're almost certainly brass. Some will have material codes moulded into them which you can google. Look up what the CR symbol looks like - this indicates DZR, but not all DZR fittings carry it :(

We replaced ours as soon as we bought the boat, because we were having her copper-coated and expected them to go over the fittings (so replacing a few years down the line would have left missing bits). In fact the pro painters masked off the fittings and then applied a dab of hard antifoul; not really sure why.

Sailfree said:
Q2 Even if they are DZR is it a good idea to replace at 9yrs?
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If DZR they should be, as far as I know, good indefinitely.

(BTW it's DZR brass. Bronze is something else again, good but somewhat expensive.)

Sailfree said:
Q3 Do you recommend plastic or DZR bronze any makes to avoid?
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DZR will be an easier like-for-like replacement. Plastic can be bulkier which may be harder to fit in a tight space or steeply-curving hull.

Sailfree said:
Q4 What supplier or are ASAP as good as any?
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ASAP are good.

Pete
 
I think it's very unlikely that they are DZR.
My 2003 Jeanneau had plain brass skin fittings. In 2011 they were showing superficial dezincification - pink spots on the flanges - but not bad enough to replace.
The valves were nickel (?) plated brass.
The hose tails were, I imagine, plain brass.
Have a look on Jeanneau owners forum for quite a bit about this, someone had some alarming deterioration, can't remember user name, sorry.
 
Jeanneau are one of the manufacturers who installed brass seacocks and fittings as original equipment. Their policy on metals selection always seems to be the lowest grade they can get away with, 400 series drive shafts for instance.
 
My 2005 Jeanneau 35 had plated brass valves: I changed all underwater skin fittings/valves/hose tails for bronze last winter. Not a job I plan to do again. My boat was in water about 35 weeks a year, mixed between marina, mooring and in use. Although all the originals had some external signs of dezincification but when cut apart the deeper brass was all sound, except for a couple of hose tails that were very clearly a different brass and going soft/crumbly at one edge.

Most people fit DZR: I paid a bit more for bronze with S/S handles from Seaware in Penryn.
 
I am going through the same exercise myself at the moment on a fifteen year old Westerly. I had a good look at the Marelon valves at LBS which were actually branded Forespar, and are supplied by Aquafax. The 1 1/2 were fine but the 3/4 had a very short handle, presumably so as not to increase the overall height, which I found stiff to operate. I was told on the ASAP stand that their new CR/DZR had a life of 4 to 5 years but Vyv is going to look into this as it seems at odds with their claims in the media.
 
jwilson said:
My 2005 Jeanneau 35 had plated brass valves: I changed all underwater skin fittings/valves/hose tails for bronze last winter. Not a job I plan to do again. My boat was in water about 35 weeks a year, mixed between marina, mooring and in use. Although all the originals had some external signs of dezincification but when cut apart the deeper brass was all sound, except for a couple of hose tails that were very clearly a different brass and going soft/crumbly at one edge.


Most people fit DZR: I paid a bit more for bronze with S/S handles from Seaware in Penryn.
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+1 my 2003 Jeanneau had brass fittings etc too.
 
vyv_cox said:
What really surprised me was that HR do the same, on a boat costing 4 or 5 times Jeanneau's. When queried they said that nobody had complained and that checking the seacocks regularly is an action every skipper should take!
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Good grief. Times two.

Checking the seacocks regularly should be standard; replacing them regularly should not.
 
JumbleDuck said:
I wonder what proportion of the building costs they thereby saved? £50 out of £50,000?
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Not much but when all the components are at a minimally accepted specification which is also in plentiful supply, then it makes sense in a business model.
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
Not much but when all the components are at a minimally accepted specification which is also in plentiful supply, then it makes sense in a business model.
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I think it's the phrase "minimally acceptable" I have the problem with there. Still, if Jeanneau and H-R can find mugs to buy this rubbish ...
 
JumbleDuck said:
I think it's the phrase "minimally acceptable" I have the problem with there. Still, if Jeanneau and H-R can find mugs to buy this rubbish ...
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However, these components comply with the RCD. But more importantly, when did you ever here of a Jeanneau or HR sinking because of corroded seacocks?.

Not necessarily condoning the practice, although I think the fittings in my 12 year old Bavaria are the same (except the one I have replaced because it had seized). Just that the majority of recent boats use these fittings and there has not been an epidemic of failures, so you can understand why the builders don't seem to get as worked up about it as some observers do.
 
JumbleDuck said:
I think it's the phrase "minimally acceptable" I have the problem with there. Still, if Jeanneau and H-R can find mugs to buy this rubbish ...
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As one of the mugs that bought a Jeanneau but could not justify the price of a HR I admit I bought on price and am happy with 10 seasons of charter work and no problems.

After 10 seasons though and going under cover for the winter lift out I will take the opportunity of replacing them.

Please educate me and tell me what I should have bought 10 yrs ago or I will remain a mug forever - please save me with you so superior knowledge!!
 
Tranona said:
However, these components comply with the RCD. But more importantly, when did you ever here of a Jeanneau or HR sinking because of corroded seacocks?.
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What makes were the ones reported in the magazines? That aside, this cost saving seems to be a fairly recent measure, so I wouldn't expect it to start biting for a bit. And, of course, expensive and wholly unneccessary replacement of seacocks avoids the problem.

Not necessarily condoning the practice, although I think the fittings in my 12 year old Bavaria are the same (except the one I have replaced because it had seized). Just that the majority of recent boats use these fittings and there has not been an epidemic of failures, so you can understand why the builders don't seem to get as worked up about it as some observers do.
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I think the operative word is "recent".

Sailfree said:
As one of the mugs that bought a Jeanneau but could not justify the price of a HR I admit I bought on price and am happy with 10 seasons of charter work and no problems.
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I'm not referring to the boats as rubbish; I'm referring to the seacocks as rubbish. I would not be impressed by someone trying to sell me £75k's worth of boat who said "By the way, we've saved fifty quid by using cheap seacocks. You'll have to replace them all in five years at most, but don't worry, it shouldn't costs more than a few thousand."

It's all so unnecessary. It would be like a car maker saving fifty quid per car by fitting tyres with 1mm of usable tread
 
Recent is over 20 years and thousands of boats. If you look at the reported failures they are primarily in fittings such as hose tails rather than valves.
 
Tranona said:
Recent is over 20 years and thousands of boats.
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Mmreally? I had gained the strong impression that while DZR brass has been used for that sort of length of time, the use of bog-standard brass, with a design life in marine environments of five years or so, was a much more recent development.
 
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