Sea Trial on Princess 35 with TAMD41As

[Avalon]

This weekend we will be flying out to Bilbao to finalise the purchase of our "new" Princess 35 which has Volvo TAMD41A engines and MS4 gearboxes.
The survey was favourable - indeed, quite complimentary. Unusually, the surveyor was able to perform a brief engine trial at low speed which did not reveal any problems. The engines are beautifully clean and give every indication of having been well maintained.

Before completing the purchase we will be conducting a fuller sea trial on Saturday. We would appreciate guidance on what we should look for.
Obviously we will be running the engines for a while at full power as well as at cruising speed. What should we look for in terms of water temperature and oil pressure - at idle and at speed? What RPM should the engines reach at WOT, and what should the top speed be in flat conditions with a clean hull?

I have read the discussions on the Volvo gearboxes which I konow are not universally held in high regard. Anything we should look/listen out for apart from the obvious?

I'll try to post a couple of pics, and will post more once the deal is done. Assuming it all goes through, the boat is due to to be trucked back to the UK shortly by Geoff Houghton of Boat Transport Ltd, at a cost of £4500.

 

[oldgit]

Looks like a very nice boat.All the boats down that way look remarkable value for money at the moment even taking into consideration cost of gettingit back home.
A saving of 20% in some cases over UK asking prices.
Another advantage appears to be the engine options choosen by first buyers located in MED which nearly always was for the bigger engines including the Cummins.
Amount of kit that was installed on boat from new always seems to be better as well.
Some of the asking prices for UK boats such as Sedan 36/T36 and P35 appears to be on the optimistic side and when compared to stuff on the continent,very poor value.
Hope to hear more when she comes home.
Might ask for some advice.

 

[macnorton]

One of the gearbox lids looks like it has been patched up around the dipstick, or is that normal?

 

[dpb]

I bought a boat with these engines, but on outdrives, three years ago. Whilst I had the boat surveyed, based on my experiences, I would if doing that time again, employ an experienced Volvo mechanic to check the engines and go on the test run.
But to answer you more specifically
Water temp in the high 80's / low 90's (degs C) under load (they take ages to warm up) Overheat buzzer at 95 deg C
Oil pressure when warm over 60psi at 2000rpm +, over 30psi at idle.
But be aware that gauges and senders, especially if original, can over or under read significantly.
Dont be fooled by new paint, we saw a few whilst looking that had clearly just been 'blown over' to make them look good.
Quite a bit of smoke on start up, especially if cold, but mine run clear when warmed up.
WOT is 3600 to 3800

Hope this helps

 

[Avalon]

Thanks, that is useful information. After going to the expense of flying a UK surveyor out and hearing his verdict on the engines, I've decided to do the sea trial myself without the benefit of a Volvo expert. I'm aware that I may have cause to regret this decision later! I will, though, probably get everything checked out once she is back in the UK.

When I was out there we started the engines and there was a little smoke on startup - actually less than I expected - but this soon went away. I'm sure it will be more noticeable on a cold day in the UK.

 

[Divemaster1]

.....
When I was out there we started the engines and there was a little smoke on startup - actually less than I expected - but this soon went away. I'm sure it will be more noticeable on a cold day in the UK.

Instruct them this time that you wish to start both engines from cold .... and when you say cold, you mean cold.... any residual heat when touching the exhaust manifold above ambient temperature, then I would automatically suspect the engine had been fired up earlier that day in an attempt to hide compression (and thus slow start) issues and future big bill arriving sooner than expected. So before attempting to start her up, open up engine hatches, hand on exhaust manifold / exhaust bend and confirm that she has not been running earlier... and do tell them that you intend to do this...

 

[Avalon]

You have a suspicious mind! As do I. Before I went out last time I gave instructions that the engines were to be cold, and I did indeed open the engine covers and check before starting them, so I know they were stone cold - or as close to stone cold as you will get on a hot day in Spain....

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Thanks, that is useful information. After going to the expense of flying a UK surveyor out and hearing his verdict on the engines, I've decided to do the sea trial myself without the benefit of a Volvo expert. I'm aware that I may have cause to regret this decision later! I will, though, probably get everything checked out once she is back in the UK.

I think that's a mistake. Stating the bleedin' obvious, checking out the engines when the boat gets back to the UK is too late. Yes the boat looks nice and yes the engines look well cared for but it doesn't take too much money to tart a boat up to look as if it's been well looked after. A few hundred quid spent getting a Volvo technician to check out the engines on the sea trial may well pay for itself if he finds faults that you can get the seller to fix at his cost and may even save you from buying a lemon. At the very least, if the technician gives the engines a completely clean bill of health, you can sleep soundly knowing you are about to buy a good boat. Btw, if the engine oil hasn't been recently changed, it is very worthwile having an engine oil analysis done. One such analysis did once save me from buying a boat which, like yours, looked kosher on the outside but the analysis revealed high levels of various contaminants which indicated that a major engine rebuild was about to be needed to the tune of £35k per side. I'm not in any way suggesting that your P35 will throw up any such horrors but it's always best to find out before you buy.
Btw apart from the usual engine checks, the major thing you should look for on a seatrial is that the boat reaches it's stated max speed at or preferably just above the max engine rpm. I'm not sure what speed a P35 with these engines should hit but you should at least try to find out what Princess originally quoted. A boat of this age will probably be 1-2kts off the manufacturer's stated max speed partly because the engines won't be producing their original max power and partly because of cruising stuff that has added additional weight to the boat but it shouldn't be say 5kts off the manufacturer's stated max speed. You should insist that the boat is lifted and cleaned (if it wasn't already for the survey) before the trial in order to ensure that the boat can hit it's max speed; any fouling especially to the sterngear could significantly reduce the speed and then you won't know whether the speed reduction is caused by fouling or a mechanical problem. Also check for any unusual vibrations or noises which may indicate a damaged prop or something else mechanically wrong and check that all the navigational equipment actually works at sea, even if the surveyor has already checked it. Lastly take a very good look around the boat after the trial to check for leaks from anywhere including hull fittings, windscreens, portholes etc etc. Always remember that this is your last chance to find anything wrong with the boat that the seller will be obliged to put right at his cost. After the trial it's all down to you
Good luck and I hope it goes well

 

[Seastoke]

Does it not look if the engine mounts have been moved or is it me

 

[Seastoke]

On the photo with the batteries the left shaft looks like it has lube tube but cant see one on the right ?

 

[Seastoke]

See it now

on the photo with the batteries the left shaft looks like it has lube tube but cant see one on the right ?

 

[rosssavage]

Um, what's up with the engine mounts? They have been moved...

Bit concerned that one bolt on each mount is now a coach bolt self tapped into the engine bearer. Originally they would have been through bolted,with a spreader plate and two nuts fitted in the rectangular space in the bearer.

 

[Seastoke]

Have they not been moved then

um, what's up with the engine mounts? They have been moved...

Bit concerned that one bolt on each mount is now a coach bolt self tapped into the engine bearer. Originally they would have been through bolted,with a spreader plate and two nuts fitted in the rectangular space in the bearer.

 

[rosssavage]

Yes, they have. Agreeing with you, seastoke!

Not a problem in itself (possibly to accommodate the flexi couplings shown?) but my concern is that now 50% of the mounting bolts are now self tapping coach bolts! not through bolted into steel spreader plates...

Would make me nervous tbh.

 

[Avalon]

Thanks for all the comments. A few years ago the engines and gearboxes were removed from the boat for a full rebuild. I understand that they have now done about 200hrs since the rebuild, hopefully long enough for any problems to become apparent. I had noticed that the engine mountings had been moved forward and assume that this was done on reinstallation to achieve correct shaft alignment with the new shaft couplings. The engine mounts were one of the areas I specifically asked the surveyor to check and he did check and hammer test them while carrying out a full pre-purchase survey and declared himself happy. I do understand the view that the coach bolts are a less ideal means of attachment than through bolting (though not unusual), so will check with him again and also take a good look at them during my visit.

While of course we don't know the full history of the boat, both the surveyor and myself formed the view that the present owner has maintained it meticulously and used it regularly. Time will tell whether we are right and I will keep you all informed. Off to Spain this afternoon......

 

[oldgit]

Out of interest....

Why did you go to all the time and trouble of importing a boat from abroad ?
Presume you had looked at all the homegrown offferings and found them wanting in some way.

 

[Avalon]

Why did you go to all the time and trouble of importing a boat from abroad ?
Presume you had looked at all the homegrown offferings and found them wanting in some way.

Exactly that. We looked at four P35s in the UK, all of which were described in glowing terms in the adverts and in most cases found them to be shabby, poorly maintained and overpriced. The only exception was one boat on the Hamble which was in nice condition but had stern drives, which was enough to put me off.

The boat in Plymouth which is on Ebay was not too bad compared to the others but had the second cabin rather than the dinette which we prefer. So it seemed worth a trip to Spain to check out a boat which looked good and was way cheaper, even taking into account the cost of shipping back to the UK.

BTW, I like the Tremlett 38.

 

[Seastoke]

good luck post photos of lift and arrival.