Sea trial KAD32

russ said:
I agree that diesel is the favourite option and would love to stick with it on my search but there doesn't seem to be that many 25-26' cruisers with diesel a engine for around £30k.
Maybe the boat I trialled had a poor engine as I didn't seem to here the supercharger kick in and there was a smell of diesel oil.
So I wont right off a KAD32 until I've tried out another.

He'll have to be careful not to drop his wallet in the briney whilst he's filling up. He wouldn't want to lose the £15,000 cash he's saved by not buying a diesel-engined boat...

Yet Carlton with a £1000 petrol bill per year its free boating for 15 years if a diesel is asking £15k more to buy.
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Hi Russ,

Just to add we swapped from a single Volvo V8 petrol to a pair of KAD32'S we are certainly happy enough, with our S28, yes they are noisier but dont make any sounds to cause concern.
I do believe you should try other 32's rather than write them off. Mechanically and their reliability has an excellent track record, IMHO.

Mark
 
You won't be doing many hours a year for a £1,000 petrol bill.

I have a 8.2 metre boat with a 250hp diesel on a leg so I guess similar size wise to what you are looking at. We did around 200 hours in the past year @ 15-17 litres per hour. Say it's 15 litres = 3000 litres at around £1 inc 60/40 and 5% vat = £3000. Simple sums but go figure petrol costs for whatever hours you think you might do. Bear in mind petrol costs more and petrol engines burn more. I reckon you'll end up with near double the fuel bill for the same hours with petrol over diesel and being conservative with fuel usage estimates you will only get around 40 hours for your £1000

Regarding noise and smoke. My diesel is one year old and smokes a little on start up but as soon as we are underway or the engine is warmed a little the smoke all but stops. I cannot compare noise between my boat and a petrol as I have not owned an inboard petrol but mine is not overly loud. Prior to my current boat I had a 20' boat with a 150hp opti. I would say the opti was probably slightly louder than my current boat and it certainly used more fuel.

The only benefit I can see with petrol is lower initial outlay and maybe slightly lighter weight. New light weight highish revving diesels give petrol's a run for there money in both acceleration and top end.

With all the above taken into account if you are only intending to do very low hours the sums may well come out in favour of petrol's but with residuals its even then doubtful.

Martin
 
carlton said:
You've got it. Don't get me wrong, diesel boats are generally better all ends up for the many reasons given by various posters above, but if your budget won't stretch to it for the size of boat you've either gotta plump for an older/smaller boat or petrol engines.

Not so sure about firefly's comment re. '... a well used petrol v8 boat engine will last how long on average in a marine environment...... 12years, 15years..???' My V8s are coming up to 18 years old - and they still fire up first time before purring on tickover and growling when revved. ;)
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yes it was a bit tongue in cheek.... but a diesel engine does last longer than a petrol... yes there are always exceptions... but that's the general idea of diesels..as well as economy
 
Firefly625 said:
yes it was a bit tongue in cheek.... but a diesel engine does last longer than a petrol... yes there are always exceptions... but that's the general idea of diesels..as well as economy
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Are you sure Firefly? Always seem to be reading about turbo's and superchargers buggering up on diesels, not sure a big V8 petrol is going to have too many problems to be honest. I may be wrong?
 
ricky_s said:
Are you sure Firefly? Always seem to be reading about turbo's and superchargers buggering up on diesels, not sure a big V8 petrol is going to have too many problems to be honest. I may be wrong?
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The reason you hear more about diesel problems is because there are vastly more diesels out there.

Diesel is cheaper, the engines use less LPH, it's more readily available, less servicing costs etc.

A key point that seems to often get missed (although has been picked up in this thread) is the extra value the boat will have when you purchase it will still be there when you want to sell it. In fact (IMO), it will be even more so as time goes by. Petrol is very unpopular now, most potential purchasers wouldn't consider one, yet a few years ago they were not such a big deal breaker. I think as time goes on the difference in price between petrol and diesel boats will continue to grow, so the £15 you might save today could well cost you £20k when you want to sell the boat in a couple of years.
 
PaulGooch said:
The reason you hear more about diesel problems is because there are vastly more diesels out there.

Diesel is cheaper, the engines use less LPH, it's more readily available, less servicing costs etc.

A key point that seems to often get missed (although has been picked up in this thread) is the extra value the boat will have when you purchase it will still be there when you want to sell it. In fact (IMO), it will be even more so as time goes by. Petrol is very unpopular now, most potential purchasers wouldn't consider one, yet a few years ago they were not such a big deal breaker. I think as time goes on the difference in price between petrol and diesel boats will continue to grow, so the £15 you might save today could well cost you £20k when you want to sell the boat in a couple of years.
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You are right. Petrol boats use more LPH than diesel boats, but servicing is cheaper for petrol.

I think the resale is also a red herring. My boat is worth more this year than when I purchased it last year, with a 5 litre V8 engine. If I sell it in five years it will probably have lost 30% of its value, but then so would a diesel boat. 30% of £40K is still better than 30% of £55K.

I think it all comes down to hours per year in the end and where you use your boat in the first place. A lot of my hours are in Chichester harbour at 6 knots, using bugger all fuel at this speed.
 
ricky_s said:
You are right. Petrol boats use more LPH than diesel boats, but servicing is cheaper for petrol.
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Diesel should be cheaper to service.

I think the resale is also a red herring. My boat is worth more this year than when I purchased it last year, with a 5 litre V8 engine. If I sell it in five years it will probably have lost 30% of its value, but then so would a diesel boat. 30% of £40K is still better than 30% of £55K.
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The rise in value of many second hand boats has nothing to do with the fuel though. It's because of the value of the £ and the increase in the cost of new boats, mostly. There are also a good few cases where people panic sold, or had to sell, at the outbreak of the credit crunch. Things didn't collapse as much as some thought and those boats actually retained there value, or they went up. I bought my current boat in Nov 08 for a bargain price and it's now worth £15k more than i paid for it. Partly due to the panic/desperate sale and partly the general increase in prices.

My assumption is that over the next five years petrol boats will lose a greater percentage than diesel boats. This will be due to ever increasing fuel costs and a greater choice of used diesel boats. Year on year, fewer and fewer people are prepared to buy petrol already, as time goes by it is getting harder and harder to sell petrol boats, unless you keep hacking the prices.

Of course, we're both making assumptions :)

I think it all comes down to hours per year in the end and where you use your boat in the first place. A lot of my hours are in Chichester harbour at 6 knots, using bugger all fuel at this speed.
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Agreed, there is some truth in that. I rarely do less than 20nm on any day out on the boat. I did 200 hours last year and would not have been able to have afforded to do so with a petrol boat. I'm almost always at sea cruising at 16-18 knots.
 
ricky_s said:
You are right. Petrol boats use more LPH than diesel boats, but servicing is cheaper for petrol.

I think the resale is also a red herring. My boat is worth more this year than when I purchased it last year, with a 5 litre V8 engine. If I sell it in five years it will probably have lost 30% of its value, but then so would a diesel boat. 30% of £40K is still better than 30% of £55K.

I think it all comes down to hours per year in the end and where you use your boat in the first place. A lot of my hours are in Chichester harbour at 6 knots, using bugger all fuel at this speed.
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The resale is not really a red herring as a diesel boat (for most) is always more desirable than the same boat with petrols. It will be more saleable and as such will retain more value.

The service costs may be slightly cheaper but you will soon spend that money on extra fuel. Petrol boats are great as floating caravans but if you want to do anything more serious than nipping to the shop/pub it has to be diesel. The avaliability of the fuel makes diesel the winner.
 
CX54WEK said:
<snip>Petrol boats are great as floating caravans but if you want to do anything more serious than nipping to the shop/pub it has to be diesel. The avaliability of the fuel makes diesel the winner.
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How would you achieve your planned trip to Wells in a petrol boat ? Note there is no petrol at Wells, nearest garage selling petrol is 10 miles away.
 
CX54WEK said:
The resale is not really a red herring as a diesel boat (for most) is always more desirable than the same boat with petrols. It will be more saleable and as such will retain more value.

The service costs may be slightly cheaper but you will soon spend that money on extra fuel. Petrol boats are great as floating caravans but if you want to do anything more serious than nipping to the shop/pub it has to be diesel. The avaliability of the fuel makes diesel the winner.
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Think we can all agree then.
<100 hours per year, petrol may work. Otherwise diesel all the way.
 
PaulGooch said:
How would you achieve your planned trip to Wells in a petrol boat ? Note there is no petrol at Wells, nearest garage selling petrol is 10 miles away.
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We wouldnt even consider it. Not only could we not afford the petrol costs but refilling would be a big worry and expense. 20 mile taxi ride and then convince them to allow you to put containers of petrol in the boot.

Its just a none starter.
 
ricky_s said:
Think we can all agree then.
<100 hours per year, petrol may work. Otherwise diesel all the way.
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If we are all in agreement is that not a rare event. We should maybe celebrate!!!

Less than a hundred hours though, that is surely a caravan not a boat. We wanted to get out more having only covered 350 hours.
 
CX54WEK said:
If we are all in agreement is that not a rare event. We should maybe celebrate!!!

Less than a hundred hours though, that is surely a caravan not a boat. We wanted to get out more having only covered 350 hours.
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Yey! :)

Think most boats are underused. I read somewhere that 50 hours per year is the average? Can't remember where though. :)
 
put an offer in on a boat last month with Kad43s 600 hrs both with crankcase compresion, overheat and not making max revs. 2 rebuilds plus in and out about 25 to 30k. Thats £50 an hour. Can put a new lump in to replace my 431b petrols for 2.5k a side. Engine rebuilds should be factored in to costs and if they are petrols get a lot closer, especialy with new engines being designed on 1000 hrs life expectancy.
Will be buying diesel next time because I can't get petrols in the boat i want but it scares the hell out of me on possible costs. Have found petrols a cheap option after having two twin petrol set ups and parts for pennys.
 
ian38_39 said:
put an offer in on a boat last month with Kad43s 600 hrs both with crankcase compresion, overheat and not making max revs. 2 rebuilds plus in and out about 25 to 30k. Thats £50 an hour. Can put a new lump in to replace my 431b petrols for 2.5k a side. Engine rebuilds should be factored in to costs and if they are petrols get a lot closer, especialy with new engines being designed on 1000 hrs life expectancy.
Will be buying diesel next time because I can't get petrols in the boat i want but it scares the hell out of me on possible costs. Have found petrols a cheap option after having two twin petrol set ups and parts for pennys.
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There are a lot of diesel boats with well over a 1000hrs on the clock that are still in fine fettle.

Ours has around 600 hours at the minute and if we do anything like the hours we did last year will have around 900 or more by the end of this year. The engine gives us no cause for concern and runs sweet as you like, it doesnt smoke nor is it unduly noisey. If anything it has just been run in!!!
 
Our petrol boat has 2, 18 year old 4.3 V6 petrols that are still sweet as anything, it probably doesn't have that many hours on it but I would put that down as another benefit of buying petrol.

We don't put that many sea miles on it as it spends 70 % of its time on the river but it is just as happy at sea, where we get around 1 1/4 miles to the gallon and spend between 50 and 75 hours running at a cruise of 22 knots each year.

Both our petrol boats have been 100% reliable and especially with an older (1993) boat the knowledge that should the worst happen I don't need to sell my house to replace an engine has been very comforting.

Range and availability of fuel are the downsides for serious sea work plus as the hours mount at speed its loss of efficiency against diesel would mean it would get expensive to run but for our use I would say it is actually cheaper to run and certainly to maintain and on the rivers I enjoy quiet, smoke free, vibration free running without the worry that I am glazing the bores and safe in the knowledge that I am spending virtually the same on fuel as any 400 hp boat.

As I said we are in the process of trying to buy a diesel boat, I just hope that it will be as reliable and cheap to run as the petrol boats have been. the only thing I won't miss will be the jerry cans.
 
ian38_39 said:
<snip>

As I said we are in the process of trying to buy a diesel boat, I just hope that it will be as reliable and cheap to run as the petrol boats have been. the only thing I won't miss will be the jerry cans.
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If you're staying with a similar size boat Ian, there are single engined diesel options. Mine has a single 200hp engine that will cruise at sea 16-18 knots doing about 3MPG. Very quiet and equally happy chugging around the rivers at 6knots.
 
>We don't put that many sea miles on it as it spends 70 % of its time on the river

Most petrol engines are "raw water cooled", unless fitted with a fresh water cooling conversion (hardly any are). On the river, this is fine, as it's fresh(ish) water anyway.

On a sea boat, it's a different story. Salty water circulating around the block takes it's toll. You can replace manifolds and risers to keep things going. Newer ones have flush points, but how many people actually flush each time? Net result is that petrol engines used in seawater are on borrowed time after 10hrs or so (I'm sure this comment will trigger a flood of posts from petrol heads claiming that their engines are 25 years old, 2000hrs, used in saltwater, and still on the original manifolds and risers :)).
 
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One of the engines on mine is fresh water cooled one is not, strange I know but it seems it was standard on sealine 310s with petrols, can only think it is to warm the water in the calorifier quicker although why they didnt fit it to both I don't know.

From what I can establish before we had it it was constantly in salt water and the engines, risers and manifolds are if the service records are to be believed original. Had them off last year for inspection and neither the fresh nor salt water ones have any noticeable difference as far as corrosion is concerned and both appear to have many years left yet that is despite them being 18 years old.
 
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