Sea survival recovery

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TFJ

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Following my recent 'sea survival course' it has identified the age old problem of getting casualties out of the water by one person, this assumes they have got you to the side of the boat, I know you can buy different gadgets that clip on the side deck etc but I still favour a rope and block arrangement, in my case something that fits at the end of the boom which can lift a weight of say 15 - 17stone by an average person without using a winch
Can any of you technical boffins help me work out what blocks I would need to make up a lifting rig that will do that together with the approx length of rope given that the 'drop' would be 8' from boom to water level
Regards
Terry
 
Hold hard.

A tackle from the boom implies either dropping the main, or hoisting with the main up.

There's supposed to be an advantage in keeping the main up, and sheeting it hard in, which helps damp any rolling of the boat. Rolling would mean the casualty would be dipped in and out of the water while being hoisted. Also, the height of the boom above the water (depends on the boat) may not be enought to hoist the casualty fully above the deck edge. Unless you guy the boom to stop it swinging, there's also a strong possibility that the the casualty will be smacked into the topsides.

The best method described to me by those who are supposed to know about these things is:

Keep the main up and sheet it hard on the centreline. Attach a block and tackle (handy billy) to the spinny halyard. Partially hoist it to give you some height, then heave the MOB up using the block and tackle.

I've never (fortunately) been involved in any MOB recoveries at sea, so I've no idea whether this is practical, but the advice came from an RNLI expert.

My own attitude to MOB is don't. Clip on at all times except the most benign. If I were involved in an MOB, after throwing over the toys and stopping the boat, my first action would be to hit the DSC red button. Shorthanded I wouldn't be confident that I could locate, secure and recover the MOB in quick time, and in any case in northern waters a high proportion of MOBs require medical attention after relatively short immersion, so getting a lifeboat or helo en-route soonest is a good thing.
 
You should recover a causalty from the the water horizontal, according to the course, so as to stop thermal shock from hypothermia, The best thing I have seen, for this, was a triangular piece of material, that was fitted at two corners, to the toe rail and with a tackle at the third corner, this affair is lowered into the water, it was perforated, so it sank, the casualty was manouvered into this rig and then the tackle lifted, to roll the person onto the deck. It has a name and is manufactured, but cant remeber what that name is.
The tackle, I use my topping lift, which is double purchase, that's to say, a block at the boom end, and a single block with becket at the mast head, plenty mechanical effiency there, especially if you use a winch.
If you want a tackle to go on the end of the boom, I would reccomend, a fiddle block to go on the end to the caualty, a single block with becket on the boom, this will give three to one purchase, and also not twist, 8 foot lift x 3, 9 feet, with x feet tail to get to a winch on the mast or to get hold of and allow the boom to be lifted, so you dont crack yer' bonce on it whilst lifting casualty.
I know what I mean, but maybe you dont, I'm sure there are more eloquent folk around who might be able to explain it better.
 
"Following my recent 'sea survival course'"

Did this course not reinforce the dangers of hydrostatic shock, caused by lifting/hoisting a casualty onboard?

You would best investigate bringing a MOB onboard horizontally, by rolling - perhaps using a sail etc clipped to the toe-rail.
 
"You would best investigate bringing a MOB onboard horizontally, by rolling - perhaps using a sail etc clipped to the toe-rail. "

Seems a good idea, but sounds like a calm water technique. Is it practical in a seaway? Just getting a shackle onto someone's life harness seems problematical enough.
 
One thing that's seldom discussed (perhaps because it's obvious to everyone except me) is what to do when the casualty gets back on board? Would dry clothes and a sleeping bag be enough? Are hot drinks OK?

I heard (vaguely, somewhere) that warming the casualty up too quick can cause a heart attack as the coldest blood from the limbs returns to the core.
 
Have you no spare scaffolding hanging around????Glad to see you survived then Terry.....whats this 17 stone malarkey, what happened to that diet then....will need to chat with Angela about those loaf's of Nimble!!!!!

Guess I had better get some extra leave and do this AZAB with you after all

Paul.
 
its a good question but

its a complicated answer

it depends on how deeply the casualty has been effected by the cold

here and here

or just trawl google for the same stuff

basically, the deeper the casualty has been effected by hypothermia the slower the recovery process is required

to further comlicate the casualties immediate needs, he may have damaged his lungs by ingesting sea spray /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
When I began operating as a sea-school I gave this a lot of thought and practice. I rigged the boom topping lift with an extended fall to run close to the geared jib haliard winch, and attached the business end to the boom with a quick-release clip. I prefer to use that for recovery, since it allows the yacht to be stopped hove-to under a very tight main: not possible if you use the mainsheet.
Given the high risk of cardiac failure following a lift with the casualty vertical, the best lift is in the feotal position using a purpose-made long double sling, a long length of rope, doubled and knotted as a l-o-n-g bowline (or bowline-on-bight, if you really know your knots). The trick is to get one loop under the armpits, the other behind the knees while the casualty is still in the water. The rescuer usually has to be down close to waterline to achieve it, and that is the best use for a ladder: over the lee side, NOT at the stern. (A bathing-ladder is better than nothing, but in a seaway a pitching stern is as likely to kill a casualty as to save one). Have a proper rescue-ladder. Along-side is also the best place from which to lift by winching.
As soon as the lift begins, a person inevetaby folds into the feotal position, and since the lower limbs account for almost half the total, the stress on armpits and torso is greatly reduced. The casualty is compact and can be swung over the cockpit and, with a long enough top-lift, straight down the hatch on to a berth. It is important to get a soaked, shocked casualty out of a cold wind fast!
I used to have my trainees make a single-handed recovery of another (inert!) from the dinghy, to prove to all that it is practicable that way.
 
POSTSCRIPT If course if you have gone ''modern, high-tech-'' you will have deprived yourself of the most effective method, and will have to devise something else, equivalent.
 
Thanks for all your posts, I have already got a harness rigged to lift either with the lifejacket harness point and another to lift the legs as recomended (we lways use lifejackets with harnesses) it is always going to be a problem on recovery as it does depend if the casualty can help or not
I am also quite aware that there are various other ways of recovery but sheeting the main in hard and using it as a 'jib' whilst still carrying the main is still a method that I want to explore further
The other preference is to get the casualty aboard at the guardrail gate position which keeps the person lifting in a reasonable protected position and not at the mast area
I would look forward to hearing from sailors who have had to carry out a recovery under pressure
Terry
 
I have a keen interest in knowing how someone would recover TFJ from the Briney, as Angela would not be a happy bunny if the "17 stone" casualty was not returned in A1 health and condition. I also have a keen interest in the opposite scenario, as TFJ would not survive a full on full frontal assault from the memsahib. (or is that racist /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif)
Given that a slightly over "11 stone" weakling would be recovering the said "17 stone" swimmer, I think that maximum mechanical advantage would be needed. Going back to the original question, it was basically, if I understand my deluded friend, how many turns around blocks and what length of rope is required to hang him.

I note the suggestion to use the topping lift, but that does not give a straight turn over the top sheave, thus likely to jam up. I don't fancy the option of a tribuckle in anywhere outside the harbour, without at least 3 crew, which option we do not have.

The Sea Safety Course by Ceejay Survival was a salutary lesson in the dangers we all face, and an object lesson in being prepared. On this note I will finish.
PS
Has anyone suggestions as to the correct deployment of a Verey Pistol to the left temple? it would save a lot of trouble and possibly ensue in the exchange of a 34 year old Kingfisher for a rather nice 2 yearold, fully loaded Najad. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Cheers,Tel,
George (you know you can rely on me, remember the hat overboard?)
 
"One thing that's seldom discussed (perhaps because it's obvious to everyone except me) is what to do when the casualty gets back on board? Would dry clothes and a sleeping bag be enough? Are hot drinks OK?"

Main danger after hydrostatic shock is Secondary Drowning.

Recommend you get casualty to a Hospital urgently, even if not showing any symptoms. Unlikely you have Oxygen on board to treat this - I've even known GP's be unaware of the condition, but ask any Diver. Casualty can die quite quickly.
 
"I've never (fortunately) been involved in any MOB recoveries at sea, so I've no idea whether this is practical, but the advice came from an RNLI expert."

"You would best investigate bringing a MOB onboard horizontally, by rolling - perhaps using a sail etc clipped to the toe-rail. "

"Seems a good idea, but sounds like a calm water technique. Is it practical in a seaway? Just getting a shackle onto someone's life harness seems problematical enough."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ken, suggest you do try some of these methods before commenting.

I have, under ideal conditions in the Solent, with a small woman volunteer + enthusiastic crew + all the tackle mentioned above. None of them were easily rigged & it was extremely difficult to recover the helpful 'casualty'.

Best method - don't go MOB in the first place.
 
[ QUOTE ]
You should recover a causalty from the the water horizontal, according to the course, so as to stop thermal shock from hypothermia, The best thing I have seen, for this, was a triangular piece of material, that was fitted at two corners, to the toe rail and with a tackle at the third corner, this affair is lowered into the water, it was perforated, so it sank, the casualty was manouvered into this rig and then the tackle lifted, to roll the person onto the deck. It has a name and is manufactured, but cant remeber what that name is.


[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps something like this?

here
 
Paul
Its no good you reading this as you dont have any pals to rescue anyway thats why your always single handed anyway the Azores is too far for you, Ryanair dont go that far, I see WoodyP has been posting also, he wants to hope I get it right, its a long way to Ponta Delgada to swim if I cant get him aboard
Terry
 
>Ken, suggest you do try some of these methods before commenting. <

Thank you for the helpful suggestion, but assure you I have no intention of throwing a person overboard in big seas, so that I can practise rescuing them. Therefore, I have to live by the wisdom of others. In this case my source was a sea survival lecturer provided by the RNLI.

As I've stated elsewhere in this forum, I've been at a serious rescue scene (several people in the water in strong winds in the overfalls off of St Catherines Point), and only 2 MOBs were recovered by the many craft present. We attempted in a heavy 41' yacht, but chickened out because there was more likelihood that we'd injure or kill them trying to get alongside than manage to pluck them out.

That's why, I repeat, my first action after throwing out the toys and stopping the boat would be a Mayday. That also is on the advice of the RNLI lecturer.
 
My prefered method of MOB recovery in my own boat, is to drop the dinghy, (3.5m RIB) which is in davits and recover casualty with that, much easier and safer. Even if just two of us, leave the boat to take care of herself, unless not possible of course.
I do have a rope boarding ladder, two meters wide, which can be dropped in the water, with the main topping lift on the bttom edge, to use as another recovery device, lowest part of my deck, is 1.5 meters from the water.
But as has been said main priority, is to keep crew onboard in the first place.
 
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