Sea Ray Sundancer 290 Re-Power Options

[thesaintlyone]

I came onto this forum asking advice on which way to Re-Power a boat and get a shed load of responses along the lines of sell the boat you've made a mistake and get your money back!!!!
Not very helpful your right everyone has a different opinion but if your not going to awnser a question that is asked then why respond.

It's not about hearing what I want to hear its about making a decision and seeking the opinions those opinions .help me formulate a plan for the boat in question talk of one outboard vs two is helpful or try to find a pair of engines as original is helpful but telling me to sell the boat cause I've made a mistake is not at all.

I gave three options that I was considering for repowering and someone added a fourth which was Sell Sell Sell and you expect me not to get frustrated I just bought the boat I'm bloody loving the boat and I don't give a monkeys arse if no one wants it later in life cause ill probably be dead by then

No your right it's not the first time because last time I talked about doing a Sailing boat project I got exactly the same responses its not worth it sell sell sell but I've since done that boat to a reasonable standard and sailed her a number of times something that would of not been possible.without the help of those supportive posters here. And it was more affordable that paying interest on a loan.

This whole rediculous attitude about avoiding project boats is ludicrous. To make a profit then maybe.!!! Hell there is a girl on YouTube that bought a boat for a dollar and did the boat up and now Sails it regularly. So telling people to avoid at all costs just doesn't make sense.

If you don't like the idea of a project then that's your choice but there are plenty of people out there who do and are willing to put time and effort into something just because they can not because of some desire to eventually make a profit or not loose money cause that is not what it's all about

Many thanks to all those that have shared positive advice and opinions about the actual questions posed and shared their insights and knowledge. I'm now seriously considering a Single outboard pod option. As a result which makes sense both financially and practically.

Regards ?

 

[simonfraser]

You def want to plan for two outboards, keep calm over there

 

[Portofino]

Consideration perhaps should be give to converting it to a displacement speed single shaft drive .
Simply if by a none marinised engine .
Aircooled petrol like garden tractor Briggs and Stratton or dump truck diesel .
If rad cooled perhaps a bigger rad or fan or both ?
Needs a P bracket ,shaft and rudder ,all available off the shelf .You are gonna do some glassing In anyhow which ever solution you go for .
Sea anglers and river people will like it , if it’s done nicely because of the shoestring running costs .

30-40 Hp or less should do it .

 

[Bigplumbs]

The idea of renovating, to me, is get something back to the way it was meant to be originally.
A Sea Ray 290 was meant to be a sea boat ... big engines, V-hull, 30+kt performance.

There are different boats that are more suited to river or estuary use, which is why buying a sea going cruiser with no propulsion was a bit of a left-field decision in the first place.
The phrase " If You Want to Get There, I Wouldn't Start From Here" comes to mind.

But he has already started that is what you are missing

 

[Bigplumbs]

The general reason that people have debunked the outboard option is purely on resale value!! . I have not heard any advice suggesting the affects of power, weight, design performance alteration. Just don't doit because you won't be able to sell it. Or it won't be worth as much. Which is why I have become frustrated. I was aware of the costs involved and my options and yes sorry I did consider electric briefly but for performance/cost I think it just isn't viable
I an thinking more and more along the lines of the outboard and to awnser an earlier question I am thinking two for the upgradeability
The back to twins option is still a possibility if I could find two engines and two legs at the right price but because I need all of it I expect it will mount up

Let me put It another way
Twin Option
Engine One £5000
Engine Two £5000
LEG One £2000
LEG Two £2000
Extra Parts £2000

Thats large amounts of money each time I have to find for each part.

Now compare to the outboard conversion

Outboard Pod Fitted £3500
Outboard One £900
Ourboard Two £900
(Upgradeable at a later date)
Extra Parts £1500

One of the most attractive points of the outboard conversion is that I can start with a pair of 60hp outboards and upgrade as nessacary because the pod will be designed to be able to take a pair of 250hp outboards

I have done research and spoken to a professional who does a few of these Conversions each year and he has said it is very viable.

So unless you guys can give me some good for and against arguments and practical advice regarding the outboard conversion idea that doesn't involve resale value then thanks but no thanks

Very well said.

 

[Whippersnapper]

I’m a bit confused. Are you not saying that you intend to use the boat exclusively on a river? In that case apart from the choice of a American sport cruiser being not an ideal starting point, surely you’d just need a single smallish but reliable outboard since you’d be tootling about at 5 knots or so most of the time?

 

[Bigplumbs]

... you think we should start with the really bad ideas first?

What you think is a bad idea is not necessarily so. I say again he has the boat and wants to repower it.

 

[Bigplumbs]

You seem to have had very good advice that what you want to do is not feasible. Perhaps you should have asked all these questions before you bought the boat. From the way you have asked your questions and your surprise at the potential cost suggest that you have a gap in your knowledge about the subject.

You seem to have a difficulty with the facts and seem to want to rewind time which I hope you realise is not possible. He has got the boat. Why cant you lot stop telling him he dropped a bollock and actually answer the questions he has asked.

This I know better than you attitude after the event is both tiresome and indeed arrogant

 

[Bigplumbs]

This is not the first time that you have sought advice and then decided to moan at the folks who have taken the time and effort to give you a response.

One of the things about asking for views on any subject is that you will get a variety of different views on the same subject. Certainly we can't all be right all the time, but your response to our views borders on rudeness It wont be long before we all have you on ignore!!

The rudeness and arrogance is from those that cant seem to answer the question asked.

If I ask for advice on whether to paint the door I have bought Green Red or Blue. I expect to hear answers about the colour.

Answering with You should have not bought the door in the first place is rude, arrogant and possibly condesending

 

[Bigplumbs]

I came onto this forum asking advice on which way to Re-Power a boat and get a shed load of responses along the lines of sell the boat you've made a mistake and get your money back!!!!
Not very helpful your right everyone has a different opinion but if your not going to awnser a question that is asked then why respond.

It's not about hearing what I want to hear its about making a decision and seeking the opinions those opinions .help me formulate a plan for the boat in question talk of one outboard vs two is helpful or try to find a pair of engines as original is helpful but telling me to sell the boat cause I've made a mistake is not at all.

I gave three options that I was considering for repowering and someone added a fourth which was Sell Sell Sell and you expect me not to get frustrated I just bought the boat I'm bloody loving the boat and I don't give a monkeys arse if no one wants it later in life cause ill probably be dead by then

No your right it's not the first time because last time I talked about doing a Sailing boat project I got exactly the same responses its not worth it sell sell sell but I've since done that boat to a reasonable standard and sailed her a number of times something that would of not been possible.without the help of those supportive posters here. And it was more affordable that paying interest on a loan.

This whole rediculous attitude about avoiding project boats is ludicrous. To make a profit then maybe.!!! Hell there is a girl on YouTube that bought a boat for a dollar and did the boat up and now Sails it regularly. So telling people to avoid at all costs just doesn't make sense.

If you don't like the idea of a project then that's your choice but there are plenty of people out there who do and are willing to put time and effort into something just because they can not because of some desire to eventually make a profit or not loose money cause that is not what it's all about

Many thanks to all those that have shared positive advice and opinions about the actual questions posed and shared their insights and knowledge. I'm now seriously considering a Single outboard pod option. As a result which makes sense both financially and practically.

Regards ��

Again very well said. I particularly like the Monkeys Arse bit.

 

[thesaintlyone]

Consideration perhaps should be give to converting it to a displacement speed single shaft drive .
Simply if by a none marinised engine .
Aircooled petrol like garden tractor Briggs and Stratton or dump truck diesel .
If rad cooled perhaps a bigger rad or fan or both ?
Needs a P bracket ,shaft and rudder ,all available off the shelf .You are gonna do some glassing In anyhow which ever solution you go for .
Sea anglers and river people will like it , if it’s done nicely because of the shoestring running costs .

30-40 Hp or less should do it .

Not something I thought was possible to b honest

 

[thesaintlyone]

I’m a bit confused. Are you not saying that you intend to use the boat exclusively on a river? In that case apart from the choice of a American sport cruiser being not an ideal starting point, surely you’d just need a single smallish but reliable outboard since you’d be tootling about at 5 knots or so most of the time?

Sorry to confuse the Boat will be based at Wateringbury near Maidstone where the river is restricted. I'll be making trips up and down the Medway to pubs for little overnights and on occasions taking the boat further up the Medway to Stangate and perhaps longer trips up the Thames not sure how far the Thames is navigable with this boat but I presume further than my sailing boat at St Katherine's Dock

Definitely wanna do an extended Thames River trip at least once a year ?

 

[Seastoke]

Sorry to confuse the Boat will be based at Wateringbury near Maidstone where the river is restricted. I'll be making trips up and down the Medway to pubs for little overnights and on occasions taking the boat further up the Medway to Stangate and perhaps longer trips up the Thames not sure how far the Thames is navigable with this boat but I presume further than my sailing boat at St Katherine's Dock

Definitely wanna do an extended Thames River trip at least once a year ��

so your journey begins ,first major task is getting two second hand outbourds matching ie ratio etc ,best thing would start a re power post to take away the bitching ,good luck and prove some wrong including me

 

[thesaintlyone]

so your journey begins ,first major task is getting two second hand outbourds matching ie ratio etc ,best thing would start a re power post to take away the bitching ,good luck and prove some wrong including me

Still got to figure out one or two??? There are positive opinions on both can anyone shed any light on this. I have been told that the pod is not much different in price so its really a case of performance, handling, manourerability, economy weight etc (But Balast is an option and extra batteries are always useful)

Few little jobs to go on with and it will be my stay aboard as well.

Regards

 

[Seastoke]

Still got to figure out one or two??? There are positive opinions on both can anyone shed any light on this. I have been told that the pod is not much different in price so its really a case of performance, handling, manourerability, economy weight etc (But Balast is an option and extra batteries are always useful)

Few little jobs to go on with and it will be my stay aboard as well.

Regards

well a twin would be great but a single so much easier ,do one get afloat and look for a second ,just had a thought you could turn the engine room into a climb in bedroom

 

[Andy Bav]

I can only offer the advice I was recently given when was talking to a broker about a rib with twin 2 strokes on the back. His advice was to ‘scrap those and get one big 4 stroke” - his argument was fuel economy though. For you, as other have said, if you want something just to push you up and down the Medway, a single will do the job to start with, and if the conversion can take 1 or 2, why not start with 1 and make a decision on the second later.

As regards the Thames, I work in London and from the comfort of my commuter train often look with envy at boats heading upstream, so a nice trip. One word of caution though, I was having lunch next to the river at Canary Wharf, and couldn’t believe the chop on the river - it was a windy day - but all helms and crew of the small boats, sail and power, looked decidedly green around the gills.

As you probably know, manoeuvring a single engine boat in a wind without a bowthruster can be quite a challenge....

Good luck with whatever you decide, and once you have finished let me know, as we often take a walk along the Medway and we’ll keep an eye out for you.

 

[Bigplumbs]

I can only offer the advice I was recently given when was talking to a broker about a rib with twin 2 strokes on the back. His advice was to ‘scrap those and get one big 4 stroke” - his argument was fuel economy though. For you, as other have said, if you want something just to push you up and down the Medway, a single will do the job to start with, and if the conversion can take 1 or 2, why not start with 1 and make a decision on the second later.



As you probably know, manoeuvring a single engine boat in a wind without a bowthruster can be quite a challenge....

.

I think the broker who advised about the 2 two strokes got it horribly wrong or indeed wanted to sell four strokes. I have 6 older 2 strokes (about 15 - 20 years old) and would not swap them for four strokes. even if I were paid a small amount to do so. I also have one 4 stroke outboard and one 4 stroke inboard and a diesel inboard

Reasons being.

Re 2 Strokes

They are far lighter than 4 strokes
They need next to zero servicing or maintenance work
They get you on the plane a lot quicker
They are far more reliable and don't have lots of complicated stuff in them
The older ones which are the least complicated and best in my view are a reasonable price to buy and often have done very few hours

Four Strokes

They are quieter
They are more fuel efficient but when you take into account the number of times you actually use them this is a red herring regarding real savings
They are hellish expensive to buy

If leglislation had not forced the change I am certain we would all still be running 2 strokes. Why do you think they are still legally available new for both commercial use and racing

 

[LBRodders]

We are in a similar situation, although we still have the two engines in the boat. They will shortly be removed and we will try and recoup a couple of quid for them.

Important things to consider:
- Engine installation costs are fixed new or old.
- Transom work is fixed.
- Used engines are not 'cheap'
- Any used engine will come with its own problems/reliability.

So in reality, its going to be really easy to do 10k+ and inherit a new set of problems with your 'new' old installation.

We want a reliable turn key boat that is efficient as it can be, but affordable for us. Fortunately that allows us to put in a brand new 350 hp MPI [just...]

So we have the boat we want, in really good nick with the valuable [and important] bit brand new under warranty. Plus we are hoping for some impressive performance.

Looking about on the market, for the money we are spending we wouldn't get anything near that. Plus, the project of getting the work done is exciting and an experience in itself. It will truly be 'ours'!

Good luck!

 

[Bigplumbs]

We are in a similar situation, although we still have the two engines in the boat. They will shortly be removed and we will try and recoup a couple of quid for them.

Important things to consider:
- Engine installation costs are fixed new or old.
- Transom work is fixed.
- Used engines are not 'cheap'
- Any used engine will come with its own problems/reliability.

So in reality, its going to be really easy to do 10k+ and inherit a new set of problems with your 'new' old installation.

We want a reliable turn key boat that is efficient as it can be, but affordable for us. Fortunately that allows us to put in a brand new 350 hp MPI [just...]

So we have the boat we want, in really good nick with the valuable [and important] bit brand new under warranty. Plus we are hoping for some impressive performance.

Looking about on the market, for the money we are spending we wouldn't get anything near that. Plus, the project of getting the work done is exciting and an experience in itself. It will truly be 'ours'!

Good luck!

Might I be so bold as to ask how much you paid for the MPI

 

[LBRodders]

Might I be so bold as to ask how much you paid for the MPI

The prices are out there and available...
But with a B3 [also new] you wont get any change for a pint from 20k. A lot of money, but a lot of engine/drive. In context, similar to a Verado 300.

With the state of the £, Brexit uncertainty and not many marine engines [if any] made in this country, I think that may represent good value in a year or two!