Scuttlebutt red diesel posts

[mrplastic]

I have been reading through a post arguing FOR the increase in tax on red diesel on the yottie forum. I just cannot believe that someone would actually do that. There really are some sanctimonious gits out there, I have put my oar in and rowed like mad.

<hr width=100% size=1>EVERYTHING begins with an E

 

[BrendanS]

Probably alienating a whole bunch of scuttlebutters in the process! Some of the arguements that Mobo'ers are using are so emotional and non logical, that no wonder that some are querying the basis of the anti red arguement

<hr width=100% size=1>Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

 

[Bergman]

Re: Been called worse

than a sanctimonious git

But actually I agree with your argument, even if it is a little overstated.

Tax for the sake of taxing really, no real advantage to the exchequer and lots of cost in collection.

The bit that really annoys me is this assumption that NOT paying tax on something is some sort of priviledge.

It isn't

Having to pay tax is an imposition.

Its even more worrying when those who pay tax actually start to take some smug satisfaction in doing so.

Or maybe I'm just a tight git.

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[duncan]

difficult issue - I don't actually disagree with the origional posters underlying argument - but like everything else here sides are drawn and fortifications built very quickly.

I mean how would 'they' (there I go see) feel if someone started a thread asking where they could organise a campaign to ensure all waterborn craft were subject to the new proposed regulations regarding skippers and alchol? Sadly you could probably put forward a better case for that under the minister's initial brief than red diesel but that's not the point.

<hr width=100% size=1>madesco madidum ..../forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[boatless]

Well, I am one of them! Although I have also done a fair bit of power. Interesting thought though, I've done 16.1 kts under sail, and my next boat (one day) should be capable of over 17 - so am I in with you lot on the drinking thing?

<hr width=100% size=1>my opinion is complete rubbish, probably.

 

[tcm]

Re: smug satisfaction in paying

yes, this does seem incredibly blairist, i agree! Perhaps they could be given the option of 1st class super-smugness by paying double whilst us tight gits doff our caps but don't pay?



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[goldsmithsteve]

I can believe a yachtie arguing for an increase in tax, probably only uses a couple of gallons a season which will be the only time he manages to go in a straight line. It actually would not affect me as I run Twin 7.4merc petrols but it is just another imposed cost. What would be next?

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[goldsmithsteve]

I can believe a yachtie arguing for an increase in tax, probably only uses a couple of gallons a season which will be the only time he manages to go in a straight line. It actually would not affect me as I run Twin 7.4merc petrols but it is just another imposed cost. What would be next?

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[mrplastic]

That is precisely my point. This tax benefits nobody, my guess is that it will cost the country more money. What will happen when the boat manufacturers can't sell their boats? because it must have a effect. People will sell their boats...flooded s/h market...less new ones required, so lots of smaller manufacturers lose contracts for parts, require less people......engines will be serviced less to help keep costs down so less work for yards....means less people....and so it goes. At that point I guess the government will step in with subsidies to keep unemployment at bay, .........and round and round the money goes.....a colossal waste of time only a moron couldn't see that lot coming....

<hr width=100% size=1>EVERYTHING begins with an E

 

[oldgit]

It can be become very very difficult to comprehend that other people do not agree with a particular point of view,when all around,the prevailing strongly expressed opinion does not contradict your own opinions.However expressing incomprehesion,will not achieve your aims.The woe awaiting the boaty leisure industry will simply not happen to the extreme you imply.As I mentioned on Shuffebutt,am fully prepared to take on my broad shoulders the worry of running a monster diesel guzzling boat from its previous impoverish owner.Unfortunatley will only be able to pay small amount of money due to dramatic fall in prices of posh boats./forums/images/icons/laugh.gif.We have been fortunate to be able to take advantage of a loophole in taxation,sooner or later it will go.If your current boat proves to expensive to run,perhaps consider getting some thing smaller or closing them throttles a tad.

<hr width=100% size=1>If it aint broke fix it till it is.

 

[Sunnyseeker]

How about just having the same prices across Europe for road and marine diesel...that seems the best solution to me, then I can chuck the spare diesel in my car, and not worry about the colour any more!

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[halcyon]

Thought that was what the EU directive was about, harmonisation, which why red must go up, but will normal come down ?


Brian

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[duncan]

very very succincitely (?) put.........

now who feels we should fight to harmonise the drink rules too?

<hr width=100% size=1>madesco madidum ..../forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[halcyon]

If were going to be Europeans, why not start with tax ( I cann't be worse of what ever the EU does ), health, pensions, fuel, wage harmonisation, let's be positive and not negative.
I'm not pro EU, but don't see why we cannot use it while we can.

Brian

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[jhr]

Tax

Hmm. Combined rates of direct and indirect tax are lower in the UK than in most other parts of the EU. Countries like France, Spain and Germany have made lavish state pension promises, for which employees and employers have paid megabucks, which they are all now hastily re-vamping because there is not a hope in Hell that they will be able to honour them in 20 years' time, with an ageing poulation and diminishing workforce. The UK state pension may be minuscule, but at least there is a realistic expectation that you'll get it when the time comes.

Whatever the UK's defects, I think I'd rather be here than most other parts of Europe, from a tax regime perspective. Now if only we could get our healthcare sorted out................../forums/images/icons/crazy.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho

 

[Gludy]

If we have to pay road fuel levels then the cost would be too high for the vast majority of cruising power boats whatever their length. Its not a case of closing the throttle a 'tad' - for most it would be either getting out of power boats or going abroad.



<hr width=100% size=1>Paul

 

[Gludy]

If we have to pay road fuel levels then the cost would be too high for the vast majority of cruising power boats whatever their length. Its not a case of closing the throttle a 'tad' - for most it would be either getting out of power boats or going abroad.



<hr width=100% size=1>Paul

 

[Planty]

I'll second that any time of day or night, why the RYA are fannying around on such an important issue, beggars belief.

Somebody, Please post on scuttlebutt, something like "I think we should all really want to get done for drink driving on all of our boats, 'cos I think it would be really good for the world!!" If somebody doesn't soon I will, in not to diplomatic a fashion.............Paul

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[oldgit]

Think we will need a better reason than that power boaters will be rather inconvienced,to win this one./forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>If it aint broke fix it till it is.

 

[Gludy]

Maybe we first need to understand that the subject is more serious than being a 'tad lighter' on the trottle can solve.

The main point against the change are:-
1. It will not raise any more tax and would probably end up as a tax loss.
2. Its not practical to enforce with boats being able to travel outside the 12 miles limit etc.
3. Its not practical to have both red and white diesel pumps everywhere.
4. There would have to be many examptions -all fraught with difficulty.
5. It would not achive harmonisation of prices through the EU.
6. It would lead tp job losses and running down the marine economy in many areas which can do with the jobs.
7. It would have knock on effects into tourism etc.
8. The scale of it is so small that it is not worth the political bother of destroying the domestic industry for what, on any reasonable calculation, would be for no gain.

There- thas a few reasons to start with.


<hr width=100% size=1>Paul