charles_reed
Active member
Polyestermite
I believe
I believe
Scare mongering or what!!
- Thread starter clyst
- Start date
cp99
New member
Re: boat pox
FlyingSpud- take a bradawl or small screwdriver and press it into the blister. How deep does it go? If half a millimetre, or even one millimetre, you´ve got 12 or 15 more to go before it´s through. How long will that take (how old is the boat and how long has it taken to get that far)? How far apart are the blisters? All in all, it´s probably not too much to worry about at the moment.
But you're quite right to say that my statement "it´s not a structural problem" is not correct. It isn´t - at least in that form. A measured and sane statement would be "not usually a structural problem", or "not a structural problem in the early stages - meaning perhaps ten years for most boats". Any concrete statement of that type is bound to be incorrect - but then it wouldn´t produce the volume and quality of replies that it did. A couple of the replying posts were very interesting. You can´t stir it up by being sane and realistic!
FlyingSpud- take a bradawl or small screwdriver and press it into the blister. How deep does it go? If half a millimetre, or even one millimetre, you´ve got 12 or 15 more to go before it´s through. How long will that take (how old is the boat and how long has it taken to get that far)? How far apart are the blisters? All in all, it´s probably not too much to worry about at the moment.
But you're quite right to say that my statement "it´s not a structural problem" is not correct. It isn´t - at least in that form. A measured and sane statement would be "not usually a structural problem", or "not a structural problem in the early stages - meaning perhaps ten years for most boats". Any concrete statement of that type is bound to be incorrect - but then it wouldn´t produce the volume and quality of replies that it did. A couple of the replying posts were very interesting. You can´t stir it up by being sane and realistic!
cp99
New member
Re: boat pox
kds - thank you for your reply to this post. It is the first time I´ve come across someone who could identify a boat which actually suffered failure due to osmosis. Of course my statement "not a structural problem" was a little too concrete - see my reply to FlyingSpud´s post.
kds - thank you for your reply to this post. It is the first time I´ve come across someone who could identify a boat which actually suffered failure due to osmosis. Of course my statement "not a structural problem" was a little too concrete - see my reply to FlyingSpud´s post.
Jacket
New member
Re: boat pox
I used to have a sailing dinghy that became unsailable due to osmosis. It was a Finn. They're ment to be fairly flexible in the forward sections, allowing the whole forward half of the boat to twist to leeward, depowering the rig. Osmosis in the deck and areas of the hull led to this flexing becoming excessive- its not nice sailing to windward in a blow watching your bows twisting through 5-10 degrees!
In the end, severe buckling of the deck led me to scrapping the hull, and selling the rig and sails.
I used to have a sailing dinghy that became unsailable due to osmosis. It was a Finn. They're ment to be fairly flexible in the forward sections, allowing the whole forward half of the boat to twist to leeward, depowering the rig. Osmosis in the deck and areas of the hull led to this flexing becoming excessive- its not nice sailing to windward in a blow watching your bows twisting through 5-10 degrees!
In the end, severe buckling of the deck led me to scrapping the hull, and selling the rig and sails.
clyst
Well-known member
Re: boat pox
Re original post - What did you do with the scrap GRP --- burnt it , buried it or is it still lying around? Just curious.
Re original post - What did you do with the scrap GRP --- burnt it , buried it or is it still lying around? Just curious.
Jacket
New member
Re: boat pox
No, I think its still stitting around my old sailing club- we had a field out the back that had become 'boat heaven', as no one knew how to get rid of them. Most dinghy sailing clubs seem to have a similar scrap yard.
Racing dinghies, being fairly lightly built, tend to wear out quicker than yachts. Also, old, uncompetative racing dinghies can't really be used for cruising in the same way old racing yachts can, and so tend to be abandoned, and so every club quickly starts accumulating old hulls.
No, I think its still stitting around my old sailing club- we had a field out the back that had become 'boat heaven', as no one knew how to get rid of them. Most dinghy sailing clubs seem to have a similar scrap yard.
Racing dinghies, being fairly lightly built, tend to wear out quicker than yachts. Also, old, uncompetative racing dinghies can't really be used for cruising in the same way old racing yachts can, and so tend to be abandoned, and so every club quickly starts accumulating old hulls.
ccscott49
Active member
Re: boat pox
Are you seriously trying to tell us, that delamination of the bottom of a polyester boat, is not a structural problem?
Are you seriously trying to tell us, that delamination of the bottom of a polyester boat, is not a structural problem?
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Polyestermite
The polyestermite has been around for a long time now. As I recall the symptoms were an even line of small round holes bored through the moulding just above the waterline. The solution as I recall was to sheath the boat in wood.
The existence of this frightening marine borer was first revealed in Motor Boat & Yachting (I think) back in the early seventies. I could probably find the cutting if anybody is interested. It was the April issue!
The polyestermite has been around for a long time now. As I recall the symptoms were an even line of small round holes bored through the moulding just above the waterline. The solution as I recall was to sheath the boat in wood.
The existence of this frightening marine borer was first revealed in Motor Boat & Yachting (I think) back in the early seventies. I could probably find the cutting if anybody is interested. It was the April issue!
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Oil bugs
' I saw that film. Wasn't Raquel Welch in it? I especially liked the bit where the bugs started eating her bikini top, unfortunately made of the same plastic as coffee cups. Saved at the last moment by our hero, who realised that the bugs couldn't live in chocolate, which he spread all over her bust. Great images.'
Loved it !
Was it 20,000 years B.C ?
As a youth ,I too , found Raquel Welch’s bikini a bit difficult to deal with , particularly as it was round about the Ursula Andress Dr No period . Yes a difficult time ……………….
Now , this film was an accurate portrayal of life, particularly the dialog which was pedominately ‘ugh’ ‘ugh’ . There is a scene however of an polythesaurus which is a type of bison ( now extinct unfortunately) feeding on a lake of raw bitumen.
Have to go now. Off for a cold shower………….
' I saw that film. Wasn't Raquel Welch in it? I especially liked the bit where the bugs started eating her bikini top, unfortunately made of the same plastic as coffee cups. Saved at the last moment by our hero, who realised that the bugs couldn't live in chocolate, which he spread all over her bust. Great images.'
Loved it !
Was it 20,000 years B.C ?
As a youth ,I too , found Raquel Welch’s bikini a bit difficult to deal with , particularly as it was round about the Ursula Andress Dr No period . Yes a difficult time ……………….
Now , this film was an accurate portrayal of life, particularly the dialog which was pedominately ‘ugh’ ‘ugh’ . There is a scene however of an polythesaurus which is a type of bison ( now extinct unfortunately) feeding on a lake of raw bitumen.
Have to go now. Off for a cold shower………….
G
Guest
Guest
Re: His lordship of Conundrum
He ain’t a bad lad I suppose.
Pleased to hear that you are getting a Contessa 26
About 5 year’s ago I had what could be described as a complete nautical sex change. Went from a tubby bilge keeler to a Cutlass 27 ( very much like the Contessa). Have not regretted it one bit and am still in a state of ecstasy whenever the sails go up.
You’re handshake by the way will now be medium/firm with a twist to starboard of one point ( Long Keeler’s Society).
Have Fun !
He ain’t a bad lad I suppose.
Pleased to hear that you are getting a Contessa 26
About 5 year’s ago I had what could be described as a complete nautical sex change. Went from a tubby bilge keeler to a Cutlass 27 ( very much like the Contessa). Have not regretted it one bit and am still in a state of ecstasy whenever the sails go up.
You’re handshake by the way will now be medium/firm with a twist to starboard of one point ( Long Keeler’s Society).
Have Fun !
vyv_cox
Well-known member
Re: boat pox
Speaking as someone who got into a bit of trouble by trying, I can tell you that you cannot burn GRP. The resin burns but the glass doesn't. OK, you could conceivably pick up the glass and bag it, but it is extremely messy and there is some very unpleasant fine dust mixed up with it, perhaps the residue talc and gum used to bond the glass fibres together.
I have read an article recently about attempts in Germany to recycle GRP. The current conclusion seems to be that there is nothing that can be done with it, except pointless exercises like chopping it up for road fill.
Speaking as someone who got into a bit of trouble by trying, I can tell you that you cannot burn GRP. The resin burns but the glass doesn't. OK, you could conceivably pick up the glass and bag it, but it is extremely messy and there is some very unpleasant fine dust mixed up with it, perhaps the residue talc and gum used to bond the glass fibres together.
I have read an article recently about attempts in Germany to recycle GRP. The current conclusion seems to be that there is nothing that can be done with it, except pointless exercises like chopping it up for road fill.
Jacket
New member
Re: boat pox
Why is using it as road fill pointless? We need road fill, and using GRP as an alternative means that we don't need to dig up vast areas of countryside to obtain it.
Similarly, some tests a couple of years ago to look at the posibility of using chopped up GRP as the aggregate in concrete, instead of the crushed rocks and gravel used currently. The tests were succesful, so all thats really needed now is a facility for chopping up boats and the like.
Why is using it as road fill pointless? We need road fill, and using GRP as an alternative means that we don't need to dig up vast areas of countryside to obtain it.
Similarly, some tests a couple of years ago to look at the posibility of using chopped up GRP as the aggregate in concrete, instead of the crushed rocks and gravel used currently. The tests were succesful, so all thats really needed now is a facility for chopping up boats and the like.
vyv_cox
Well-known member
Re: boat pox
It's pointless because roadfill is required in large tonnages that is easily satisfied by quarrying for stone. I don't argue that there are not environmental issues but that's beside the point. The volume of GRP likely to be generated by an expensive, probably environmentally unfriendly. specialised process, after collecting the raw material far and wide and transporting it hundreds of miles, will be close to negligible. Or pointless.
It's pointless because roadfill is required in large tonnages that is easily satisfied by quarrying for stone. I don't argue that there are not environmental issues but that's beside the point. The volume of GRP likely to be generated by an expensive, probably environmentally unfriendly. specialised process, after collecting the raw material far and wide and transporting it hundreds of miles, will be close to negligible. Or pointless.
Jacket
New member
Re: boat pox
Except you have to get rid of GRP somehow, so may as well be as road fill or something similar. Sure, the quantities will be relatively small, but at least you're diposing of the GRP without having to resort to landfills, which really are environmentally unfreindly and expensive, and still leve you with the problem of transporting the plastic.
I can't really see how you can describe a porocess that cuts up GRP as 'environmentally unfriendly'. It'll just be a series of rollers with cutters attached.
As for the cost of transport, the boats will have to be transported to a disposal site anyway, unless you propose littering our foreshore with abandoned yacht hulls.
Finally, in your arguments against using GRP for road fill, you're assuming that yachts are the only source. In fact, the marine industry is a relatively minor user. GRP is used for pipes, structural elements etc, all of wich will eventually need disposing of. It is also likely that over the next decade or two the use of structural composites will drastically increase, compounding the problem.
Except you have to get rid of GRP somehow, so may as well be as road fill or something similar. Sure, the quantities will be relatively small, but at least you're diposing of the GRP without having to resort to landfills, which really are environmentally unfreindly and expensive, and still leve you with the problem of transporting the plastic.
I can't really see how you can describe a porocess that cuts up GRP as 'environmentally unfriendly'. It'll just be a series of rollers with cutters attached.
As for the cost of transport, the boats will have to be transported to a disposal site anyway, unless you propose littering our foreshore with abandoned yacht hulls.
Finally, in your arguments against using GRP for road fill, you're assuming that yachts are the only source. In fact, the marine industry is a relatively minor user. GRP is used for pipes, structural elements etc, all of wich will eventually need disposing of. It is also likely that over the next decade or two the use of structural composites will drastically increase, compounding the problem.
vyv_cox
Well-known member
Re: boat pox
I'm not arguing about the use of GRP for road fill, I'm just saying that the economics don't make sense. On one side you have perhaps a single, quite complex plant with the capability of cutting up GRP items ranging in size from large yachts, tanks, various chemicals vessels and the like, down to much smaller stuff, with all the air filtration, specialist transport, and suchlike that this will demand. On the other hand a local quarry using existing low-tech technology that is often sited close to the end user (I live in a densely quarried area, so I know what this means).
If we take, say a 40 ft hull as an example, the total weight of GRP will be perhaps 6 tonnes or less? How much to obtain and process that? First we have to get it there - maybe the plant will be in Birmingham, where the roads are being built? The product will be light, dusty and quite unpleasant. What precautions will be needed to keep the dust down, ensure it is compacted, etc., etc. Contrast with half a truck load of stone from just up the road. Which would you buy?
I'm not arguing about the use of GRP for road fill, I'm just saying that the economics don't make sense. On one side you have perhaps a single, quite complex plant with the capability of cutting up GRP items ranging in size from large yachts, tanks, various chemicals vessels and the like, down to much smaller stuff, with all the air filtration, specialist transport, and suchlike that this will demand. On the other hand a local quarry using existing low-tech technology that is often sited close to the end user (I live in a densely quarried area, so I know what this means).
If we take, say a 40 ft hull as an example, the total weight of GRP will be perhaps 6 tonnes or less? How much to obtain and process that? First we have to get it there - maybe the plant will be in Birmingham, where the roads are being built? The product will be light, dusty and quite unpleasant. What precautions will be needed to keep the dust down, ensure it is compacted, etc., etc. Contrast with half a truck load of stone from just up the road. Which would you buy?
jimi
Well-known member
Re: boat pox
the best way to recycle them would be to cut a couple of holes in them and sink them in the fishing grounds, that would give the fish somewhere to hide when the fishermen are fishing so that fish stocks would be preserved. What do you think?
the best way to recycle them would be to cut a couple of holes in them and sink them in the fishing grounds, that would give the fish somewhere to hide when the fishermen are fishing so that fish stocks would be preserved. What do you think?
ccscott49
Active member
Re: boat pox
As far as I'm concedrned, you can start chopping them up now, or sinking them, no problems for me, solve the overcrowding of marina problem, start with all the ones that aren't used for more than......... say, six weeks a year, compulsary grinding up!! That should stir the pot a little tee hee.
As far as I'm concedrned, you can start chopping them up now, or sinking them, no problems for me, solve the overcrowding of marina problem, start with all the ones that aren't used for more than......... say, six weeks a year, compulsary grinding up!! That should stir the pot a little tee hee.
jimi
Well-known member
Re: boat pox
60% of owners would'nt notice for a couple of years!
60% of owners would'nt notice for a couple of years!
chriscallender
Active member
Re: boat pox
Would be a good excuse for the council when the road was full of pot-holes, oh that road is closed because it has osmosis, we didn't let it dry out enough over the last summer.
Would be a good excuse for the council when the road was full of pot-holes, oh that road is closed because it has osmosis, we didn't let it dry out enough over the last summer.
Jacket
New member
Re: boat pox
This could go on for a long time!
The point I'm trying to make is that the ONLY safe way to get rid of GRP is to cut it up.
So, irrespective of economics, at some point we'll reach the stage where there is so much of the stuff sitting around that a system of cutting it up an recycling it will have to be set up. So there'll always be the problem of transportation to the crushing plant. Size of items being crushed shouldn't be a problem- it would be cut up into smallish (couple of meter square?) chunks before being loaded onto a lorry to take to the plant. So the only real question is what the GRP's used for. It'll have to be fill of some sort, whether for roads or concrete, as there aren't really any other possibilities.
Set the plant up in the south east somewhere, where there aren't many quarries producing road fill grade stone, and its likely that there will always be road construction schemes going on within a couple of hundred miles or so in which the GRP can be used as fill.
As an aside, road fill often doesn't come from somewhere local to the building site. In the present situation of road transport being relatively cheap, fill is often obtained from wherever it cheapest, which may often be the other side of the country. Remembering an earlier thread about road congestion and pollution, its this kind of stupidity that really needs to be stopped.
Also, dust productions a big problem with rock crushing, so no difference to GRP there.
This could go on for a long time!
The point I'm trying to make is that the ONLY safe way to get rid of GRP is to cut it up.
So, irrespective of economics, at some point we'll reach the stage where there is so much of the stuff sitting around that a system of cutting it up an recycling it will have to be set up. So there'll always be the problem of transportation to the crushing plant. Size of items being crushed shouldn't be a problem- it would be cut up into smallish (couple of meter square?) chunks before being loaded onto a lorry to take to the plant. So the only real question is what the GRP's used for. It'll have to be fill of some sort, whether for roads or concrete, as there aren't really any other possibilities.
Set the plant up in the south east somewhere, where there aren't many quarries producing road fill grade stone, and its likely that there will always be road construction schemes going on within a couple of hundred miles or so in which the GRP can be used as fill.
As an aside, road fill often doesn't come from somewhere local to the building site. In the present situation of road transport being relatively cheap, fill is often obtained from wherever it cheapest, which may often be the other side of the country. Remembering an earlier thread about road congestion and pollution, its this kind of stupidity that really needs to be stopped.
Also, dust productions a big problem with rock crushing, so no difference to GRP there.