Lady Campanula
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Says it all
- Thread starter Lady Campanula
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TQA
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Dumb question coming up.
Prior to the days of roller furling how did they deal with the headsail on the end of that mucking great bowsprit. I can see how a downhaul would work but you would still have to get out to the end of the bowsprit.
[Lightbulb flashes ON] did they have some kind of sliding arrangement for the forestay and could they pull it back in on the bowsprit.
Pretty boat and it looks like it is being cruised with the pramhood.
Does the lack of lifelines mean no insurance ?
Prior to the days of roller furling how did they deal with the headsail on the end of that mucking great bowsprit. I can see how a downhaul would work but you would still have to get out to the end of the bowsprit.
[Lightbulb flashes ON] did they have some kind of sliding arrangement for the forestay and could they pull it back in on the bowsprit.
Pretty boat and it looks like it is being cruised with the pramhood.
Does the lack of lifelines mean no insurance ?
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DownWest
Well-known member
Yes, mate has a fairly long bowsprite. The W M furler is attached to an iron ring with a tackle to run it along the b/s. So while he can furl it, he can also stow it without any heroics.
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Perhaps Seanick can fill us in on any relationship between insurance and lifelines?
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Perhaps Seanick can fill us in on any relationship between insurance and lifelines?
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jerrytug
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Was tied up next to her at Bursledon..It`s a Lynn smack,in continuous use,and refreshingly not only has the pram hood but about four Lewmar type smoked glass hatches. Also, goes like a train! Jerry
TQA
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Thanks for the enlightenment Downwest.
I see how the iron ring thing will work.
Cracking shot - love to see these old boats being used.
I see how the iron ring thing will work.
Cracking shot - love to see these old boats being used.
prv
Well-known member
My boat came with the jib on a traveller (leather-covered iron ring as DownWest described) and Wykeham-Martin furler. I don't usually take the jib down though, so I got rid of the traveller and now have the furler shackled directly to the cranse iron at the end of the bowsprit. It sets better that way. My bowsprit runs in and out (I have to pull it in for mooring) so it's easy enough to get at the jib to take it down (once furled) if I need to. This is the main reason to get rid of the traveller - it was another thing to mess about with when rigging and stowing the sprit.
This simplification may only work on a small boat like mine - I can see that with some bigguns you wouldn't want the added load of the furled sail while trying to push the bowsprit out.
Pete
This simplification may only work on a small boat like mine - I can see that with some bigguns you wouldn't want the added load of the furled sail while trying to push the bowsprit out.
Pete
Simon_and_Tanja
Member
Did they think lifelines would spoil the looks more than the pram hood? I reckon the latter is really an extra sail
Woodlouse
New member
If I had foot deep bulwarks I wouldn't have guard rails either. In fact I often contemplate removing them from my four inch toerail.
Simon_and_Tanja
Member
Retro 70's sailing
Foot deep bulwarks - I can see his feet! Is he wearing platforms?
Tend to agree about the lifelines though, my stanchions are so wobbly I doubt they'd even slow your exit down. (do tend to clip on however when out on my own - or when the crew on the foredeck is asleep)
Foot deep bulwarks - I can see his feet! Is he wearing platforms?
Tend to agree about the lifelines though, my stanchions are so wobbly I doubt they'd even slow your exit down. (do tend to clip on however when out on my own - or when the crew on the foredeck is asleep)
Woodlouse
New member
He's standing on his cockpit combing, not on deck. You can see where the deck is by the scuppers letting light though at the aft end.
My thoughts for removing my guard rails is a drag issue. I think they slow the boat down when the rail goes under which is unforgivable when racing.
Seagreen
New member
Ditto on traveller/wykham martin gear. Only problem is the halyard, which has two working ends, getting twisted.
As for the "pram hood"- a lovely boat ruined. Fellow might be a hairdresser, what? Not the done thing, old boy.
As for the "pram hood"- a lovely boat ruined. Fellow might be a hairdresser, what? Not the done thing, old boy.
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Simon_and_Tanja
Member
Nowhere near as much drag as the scuppers on his bulwarks or even I suggest the scuppers on your oversized toerail
Looks like there is a separate helming and main cockpit? So he's hanging on a running backstay, standing on a bridge deck/ cockpit coaming and steering via his toes on a roughly midshipped tiller - that can't be comfortable can it?
Take away the pramhood and the bridge deck and you could stand on deck an insert the handle of the tiller up your butt like the rest of us do
prv
Well-known member
From the style of boat, it's possible it has no cockpit(s) at all. I think it's an Essex Smack thing. They have a flat deck all over, and a "steering thwart" right across the boat at bulwark level under the forward end of the tiller. I can't really tell from the picture, but if his is like this then he's standing on the thwart and the "cockpits" fore and aft of him are simply the main deck level.
Pete
DownWest
Well-known member
He actually seems very comfortable.... and it looks as if the boat is well balanced, or at least the helm is lightly loaded.
PRV, my (in build) boat is slightly smaller than yours and has the stem head as the main forestay attachment. As I will be folding up the sprite, is it a big hassle with the the furler attached to the cranse iron?
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PRV, my (in build) boat is slightly smaller than yours and has the stem head as the main forestay attachment. As I will be folding up the sprite, is it a big hassle with the the furler attached to the cranse iron?
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Seanick
Member
Its Russell, on Victorious, I presume back down in Plymouth.
His website is http://www.victorious.co.uk/#
There is a thwart spanning the boat by the tiller.
The jib goes out on a traveller, and the furler is without a foil, but made from a Lewmar furler.
The bowsprit reeves on rollers, and is 'easier' to get in and out than mine!
She has a single engine driveing twin hydraulicly driven props (folding).
She goes very well, but uphill we go up, and she goes over there, as she is a shallow smack.
Lifelines-well, the bulwarks are about 12/14", and as he single hands her most of the time is unlikley to lose anyone!
Insurance? whats that got to do with lifelines?
And the Pram hood? Well he spends a lot of time on board and keeping the rain/spray out is more important than his ego!
It does fold down, but in the West Country he keeps it up all the time .....
There is no twisting issue on the halyard as it is a 4:1 with a fast end and a slow end with tweeker. There is one single block each side of the mast so it can't twist, and works well.
His website is http://www.victorious.co.uk/#
There is a thwart spanning the boat by the tiller.
The jib goes out on a traveller, and the furler is without a foil, but made from a Lewmar furler.
The bowsprit reeves on rollers, and is 'easier' to get in and out than mine!
She has a single engine driveing twin hydraulicly driven props (folding).
She goes very well, but uphill we go up, and she goes over there, as she is a shallow smack.
Lifelines-well, the bulwarks are about 12/14", and as he single hands her most of the time is unlikley to lose anyone!
Insurance? whats that got to do with lifelines?
And the Pram hood? Well he spends a lot of time on board and keeping the rain/spray out is more important than his ego!
It does fold down, but in the West Country he keeps it up all the time .....
There is no twisting issue on the halyard as it is a 4:1 with a fast end and a slow end with tweeker. There is one single block each side of the mast so it can't twist, and works well.
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TQA
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Retractable bowsprits eh! Thats fancy for you now.
I can see how it would work and boy oh boy having it retracted must reduce the anxiety factor getting it into a berth.
I can see how it would work and boy oh boy having it retracted must reduce the anxiety factor getting it into a berth.
DownWest
Well-known member
Seanick; Insurance? whats that got to do with lifelines? .[/QUOTE said:
PuffTheMagicDragon
Active member
No question is dumb
For those who wish to know more about the basics, here is a fairly good description that might be of interest:
http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/Articles/rigintro.htm
For those who wish to know more about the basics, here is a fairly good description that might be of interest:
http://www.classicmarine.co.uk/Articles/rigintro.htm
Simon_and_Tanja
Member
Steering thwarts
Thanks Seanick for the description. I now have the layout.
Any idea as to the purpose behind a "steering thwart". It seems a considerable obstruction to have on deck and unlikely to improve forward visibilty much for the helm - surely it puts your head in the sails. The tiller length also makes it look inpractical to use as a helming seat - and tiller is too low to be used whilst standing on it - in fact other than standing on the thwart and steering with your feet it just looks like a bloody great nuisance.
Was the idea to keep the helm clear of all the clutter (copious catches) swimming around on deck?
As to the lifelines quite agree - not needed.
As to the pram hood makes sense but can't believe it provides that much shelter underway - I'll stick with the dayglo waterproofs
Thanks Seanick for the description. I now have the layout.
Any idea as to the purpose behind a "steering thwart". It seems a considerable obstruction to have on deck and unlikely to improve forward visibilty much for the helm - surely it puts your head in the sails. The tiller length also makes it look inpractical to use as a helming seat - and tiller is too low to be used whilst standing on it - in fact other than standing on the thwart and steering with your feet it just looks like a bloody great nuisance.
Was the idea to keep the helm clear of all the clutter (copious catches) swimming around on deck?
As to the lifelines quite agree - not needed.
As to the pram hood makes sense but can't believe it provides that much shelter underway - I'll stick with the dayglo waterproofs
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Simon_and_Tanja
Member
Steering thwart
Ah ha - followed Seanick's link now and seen the nice photos. Seems there is a smaller aft cabintop situated right in front of the tiller (doesn't quite extend beam to beam) and not quite visible in the original poster's photo. Presumably designed for a bit of head-height down below but I suspect there have been a few stubbed toes up on deck!
Makes the helming position so awkward they have abandoned steering altogether in the last photo on the website gallery
http://www.victorious.co.uk/images2/vic/VicChiBem4.JPG
Ah ha - followed Seanick's link now and seen the nice photos. Seems there is a smaller aft cabintop situated right in front of the tiller (doesn't quite extend beam to beam) and not quite visible in the original poster's photo. Presumably designed for a bit of head-height down below but I suspect there have been a few stubbed toes up on deck!
Makes the helming position so awkward they have abandoned steering altogether in the last photo on the website gallery
http://www.victorious.co.uk/images2/vic/VicChiBem4.JPG
