SAR Helicopter Services to be Privatised

[HoratioHB]

I don't follow your logic, regardless of who trained him, once a service SAR pilot reaches 38 what is stopping him crossing over?
Also, as an ex-RAF heli pilot, I just don't see what the operational training value is in keeping RAF pilots in UK SAR roles. Granted there is a need for naval aircraft carriers to have SAR trained heli crews, but spending extended periods on UK SAR flights is not an efficient way to maintain that capability when we need aircrew on the front line. As for land based operations, the skills and environments are simply too different. I think military aircrew on SAR will inevitably phase out completely over time.

Sorry but I had to laugh a bit at this. In the mid 90s the RAF were desperately trying to justify keeping the Mk 3 SAR force and came up with all sorts of 'reasons' like using it as a non front line pool to rest aircrew from front line duties and 'combat SAR' a job the Sea King is not really suited for. Its nice to hear an ex RAF pilot saying what we were all thought at the time. I must admit bias being a WAFU (someone else can explain what that means!).

 

[halcyon]

I don't follow your logic, regardless of who trained him, once a service SAR pilot reaches 38 what is stopping him crossing over?
Also, as an ex-RAF heli pilot, I just don't see what the operational training value is in keeping RAF pilots in UK SAR roles. .

In the 90's the SAR section at Culdrose was a training flight only, max duty was 3 years, after which the crew went back to front line duty. This way it maintained a pool of trained crew spread over the fleet air arm. Plus the aircrew was a trained navel diver, they have / had to do a minimum number of hours a week diving. As a diver they deployed / jumped from 60 foot from memory so were rapid responce.

Brian

 

[marklucas]

Get over it!

The MCA has a duty to provide SAR. How they do it is up to them.

I've personally done 3 hi-line exercises in The Solent with MCA contracted Bristow helos, and they were totally professional and clear in their communications.

So rest assured you will be rescued and don't worry about who directly pays the man offering to rescue you!

 

[Ubergeekian]

The MCA has a duty to provide SAR. How they do it is up to them.

I've personally done 3 hi-line exercises in The Solent with MCA contracted Bristow helos, and they were totally professional and clear in their communications.

I suspect that the pilots - Bristows amongst them - who fly helicopters out to the North Sea rigs have better flying skills for low level work over water in bad conditions than services pilots, simply because they do it so much. I've just had a look, and Bristows had 29 flights outbound from Aberdeen today.

http://www.bristowgroup.com/resources/flight_stat.php

 

[Major Catastrophe]

The MCA has a duty to provide SAR.

No they don't. They have a duty to provide an element of SAR. Provision of SAR is a joint Dft and MOD responsibility.

The Coastguard is one of the several coordinating agencies.

It is all outlined in this document.

8.1 Future of UK SAR Helicopter (SAR-H) Provision
8.1.1 The SAR-H project is a joint MoD/DfT programme that seeks to replace the
SAR capability currently provided by the Royal Air Force (RAF) and the
Royal Navy (RN), using Sea King Mk3, 3a and 5 helicopters, and the MCA
through service contracts. The MoD and MCA together provide a 24 hour
military and civil SAR service for the UK SAR Region from 12 bases
around the UK. The new service is planned to commence early in the next
decade. The project is subject to competition in accordance with
EU procurement regulations. A proportion of Military aircrew will continue
to form part of the strategy in accordance with a revised MoD UK SAR
Policy which “seeks to develop a joint military deployable SAR capability
and, in conjunction with the DfT, maintain a UK military/civilian SAR
capability to ensure that the most effective and timely response is available
to assist service personnel and civilians in hazardous situations”. SAR
tasking, currently carried out by the Aeronautical Rescue Co-ordination
Centre (ARCC) at Kinloss and the appropriate Maritime Rescue
Co-ordination Centres (MRCCs) will continue to be managed by the MoD
and MCA.

 

[maxi77]

I think military aircrew on SAR will inevitably phase out completely over time.

Whilst that may well be true for the Crabs I suspect the RN will need to retain the skill and expertise.

 

[glashen]

I don't follow your logic, regardless of who trained him, once a service SAR pilot reaches 38 what is stopping him crossing over?
Also, as an ex-RAF heli pilot, I just don't see what the operational training value is in keeping RAF pilots in UK SAR roles. Granted there is a need for naval aircraft carriers to have SAR trained heli crews, but spending extended periods on UK SAR flights is not an efficient way to maintain that capability when we need aircrew on the front line. As for land based operations, the skills and environments are simply too different. I think military aircrew on SAR will inevitably phase out completely over time.

I agree many will leave for civilian jobs, but that is exactly the same position as now, retaining military personnel is clearly an issue for the armed forces. I have no particular knowledge but wonder if the military are more favourable to the refreshment and training of new blood rather than retaining all the old hands.
My impression is that the MoD are the ones who want to retain the military element, not Soteria using them to keep costs down. My knowledge of the existing civilian SAR is limited to seeing them flying over and attending a talk by one of the pilots some time ago. However that leaves an impression of a very professional set up, which has an issue with equipment due to the age of the S61. The new set up looks as if provides the right equipment and organization for the foreseeable future.

 

[Vamoose]

Low Flying over sea in bad conditions

RN A/S Sea Kings used to spend their time either in the hover at 40ft "pinging" for submarines or jumping to their next "dip" at 120 ft.. AND they were fully equipped and trained to carrry out SAR duties in all weathers.. RN Commando aircrew practiced flying as low as possible over the sea in order to get their loads (soldiers) ashore without being detected..I know there are many ex RN Sea King aircrew who now work for the civilian agencies.

I am sure the same applies to the RAF crews

Have faith both the guys in the front and the back know what they are doing

I suspect that the pilots - Bristows amongst them - who fly helicopters out to the North Sea rigs have better flying skills for low level work over water in bad conditions than services pilots, simply because they do it so much. I've just had a look, and Bristows had 29 flights outbound from Aberdeen today.

http://www.bristowgroup.com/resources/flight_stat.php

 

[maxi77]

RN A/S Sea Kings used to spend their time either in the hover at 40ft "pinging" for submarines or jumping to their next "dip" at 120 ft.. AND they were fully equipped and trained to carrry out SAR duties in all weathers.. RN Commando aircrew practiced flying as low as possible over the sea in order to get their loads (soldiers) ashore without being detected..I know there are many ex RN Sea King aircrew who now work for the civilian agencies.

I am sure the same applies to the RAF crews

Have faith both the guys in the front and the back know what they are doing

Whatever uniform they are weraing, even the crab one.