Salvaging S/Y COLROS

[Barbara1116]

Dear Forumites,

You'll remember our recent search for David Cartwright, skipper of S/Y COLROS, who we now know was lost at sea in mid-January 2007 off the Portuguese coast. His 27' steel sloop has drifted for the last 4 1/2 months and is now positioned about 600 miles SW of the Azores. We have an exact position report as of May 30th when two crew from a passing superyacht boarded her and took David's ID, computer, and other personal effects.

Colros is very important to us - she is our beloved David's last project and his most precious possession.

Do any of you know of anyone (or any yachts) out there who can bring / tow her in to the nearest safe haven? Or do any of you have any other ideas or thoughts re how effective salvage of Colros might be acheived?
We are wondering about the viability of having her craned on board a cargo ship, if one happens to be passing by.

I can offer a decent award to anyone who brings her in. Any ideas?

I realize this is a long shot, but must try.

Thank you,
Barbara

 

[Twister_Ken]

Barbara,

What you're asking is very difficult.

From a merchant ship point of view, most nowadays have no lifting derricks, and no deck space available if they did. Also, in mid-ocean, even in relatively benign conditions, there will be lots of swell-induced movement so that securing a small boat alongside in preparation for lifting is likely to be dangerous to life and limb, and indeed to Colros itself. Even when mid-ocean rescues from yacht to merchantman have occurred, the yacht is usually left behind, often with extensive damage caused by the transfer.

As for yacht-to-yacht salvage, hardly any yachts are equipped properly for towing, especially over long distances. Plus there's the fact that any yacht out there is undoubtedly out there because it's on its way somewhere else, and is not likely to be disposed to divert several hundred miles to tow in an abandoned, low-value yacht.

Also, although you have a position that was accurate 7 days ago, Colros will be many miles from that position now, and finding her again would require a complex search.

I suspect your best hope is that she would be found by a smallish fishing boat returning to shore with holds full, that might consider it worth its while to take her in tow and bring her in for salvage value. What the likelihood is of such a boat being in that part of the world, I simply don't know.

Sorry to put it bluntly.

 

[Allan]

This is the first time I have heard that Colros has been found. I'm so sorry to hear that David is was lost. Our thought are with you and your family Barbara. I will be at SIB 23rd September.
Peace and Love,
Allan

 

[pelicanpete]

This maybe a naive idea but here goes anyway.
I am wondering if there is a guru, either an individual, company or governmental body that has the ability to estimate possible landfall position based on variables such as windage and tidal drift information? I suspect that NOAA compiles such information for the US Navy and probably the M.O.D. do, too. If a 'best estimate' of landfall were available, it may be possible (with luck) that the drifting vessel turns up close to land where it can be towed to harbour and dealt with appropriately; possibly even being transported as deck cargo back to the UK?

Perhaps this is a crazy idea but, as you are looking for ideas, it may help.

 

[tcm]

lovely idea. But the margin of error will mean it might be this island, or then next island, or panama etc etc.

Sorry to be brutal (again) but I think it rather thoughtless of the superyacht crew to leave the boat afloat if they had boarded her and retrieved persoanl effects - surely much safer for all to flood and sink the boat if it could not be towed? Another boat may not be so lucky as to find it so neatly - there is now an unmarked and unlit floating (steel?) hazard somewhere perhaps SW of the Azores.

 

[Evadne]

I think your best shot will be a fishing boat, partly because there are more of them than any other type of vessel, or if you are lucky a military or research vessel. Cargo ships' cranes tend to be big affairs for unloading cargo in port and they are often unwilling or unable to use them in a seaway. Research vessels are set up for deploying and recoveing ear, although lifting something as big and unwieldy as a yacht out of the sea is going to be quite difficult and dangerous, the scenario of a fisherman towing her in for salvage seems most plausible.

I wonder if there is a fisherman's cooperative or association in the Azores that you could advertise your offer through? I suspect that the Lloyds open form will be the way to proceed.

 

[Bajansailor]

TCM, I think it would have been utterly thoughtless of the superyacht crew to have sunk Colros.
Never mind that this sort of action is apparently the PC thing to do these days.

Colros was David's home, and she belongs to his family. The big yacht was not able to take her under tow, hence it was entirely appropriate that they should 'batten her down' as best they could, and allow her to carry on drifting.

You need to look at the whole picture re objects floating in the North Atlantic - Colros is not the only floating 'hazard'. There are probably thousands of semi submerged containers, tree trunks etc all floating around.
For instance, a couple of enormous trees washed up on the east coast here recently - they probably originated from the Amazon. If they had not come ashore here, it is possible that they would have hitched a lift with the Gulf Stream and eventually landed on the west coast of Ireland in a year or so, if still afloat.

My guess is that Colros will continue to drift approximately westwards (or NW) at perhaps 10 - 15 miles per day (based on her average drift rate over the past 5 months) until she encounters the Gulf Stream heading north - by then she wont be too far off the Eastern Seaboard of the USA.
But hopefully someone will have found her again by then.

 

[Bajansailor]

It was me who had suggested to Barbara the possibility of being lifted on board a ship - and yes, I know of the possible dangers.
But the reason I suggested this was based on an incident last year May, when the Norwegian yacht Naomi J was sailing across from the Cape Verdes to Barbados, and she was run down at night by a 45,000 tonne bulk carrier. Owen called them up on VHF (as he was sinking), and they turned round to come and pick him up (they never saw him). The seas were probably 3m, and the wind was F 4-5, yet the ship crew managed to bring this huge vessel alongside Naomi J, and they made a very determined attempt to take her on board using one of their deck cranes. But she slipped out of the slings on the way up, and they had to abandon her then.
(Owen had been taken off previously).
I have contacted a ham radio friend in the Azores and have asked him to investigate re the possiblity of a fishing vessel going out and looking for her, or maybe there might even be Azorean vessels in the vicinity.

 

[Evadne]

I'm not sure I'd head of that incident, it sounds like a fine piece of seamanship, I was only really speaking generally, from being present at the deployment and recovery of gear from rather smaller boats than that.
I wish them the best of luck, it obviously means a lot to Barbara and the family.

 

[tcm]

ok, well, if it's PC to sink it i'm definitely against that. Hopefully it will continue to orbit the azores for a while.

 

[Stingo]

Barbara

In my humble opinion, Twister_Ken has got it right. Colros in now a shipping hazard. As a comparison, imagine a car has been involved in an accident with fatalities. If the berieved then insist that the car be left on the motorway, in an unknown possition, as a sign of respect for the deceased, then all future motorists would need to take unneccessary avoiding action for an uncharted hazzard.... need I say more?

I think Colros should be sunk and let her and David rest in peace, together.

 

[tome]

Barbara

I refrained from replying because I thought Twister_Ken had put it very well. If you recall I posted the awful reply to you that perhaps David had been overwhelmed during the earlier days of your search

Whatever the merits of sinking a hazardous vessel, this hasn't happened to Colros and she's afloat and drifting. She will probably wash up somewhere, but it would not be right for you to await this for your closure

David is gone, sadly. You cannot create a museum for him other than the obvious one which exists within the hearts of all his family and friends. In all this, Colros was only really important to David

Let go Barbara, and celebrate his wonderful life

 

[Barbara1116]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I'm not feeling very hopeful at this point, but I will contact Lloyds as Evadne suggests. Re Colros being a shipping hazard, I suppose one of the risks for any sailor - esp. singlehanded - is that if tragedy strikes, your boat can become a hazard for other sailors. If someone is going to bother to go out and find Colros to sink her so she's no longer a hazard, why not tow her to port instead and claim a reward for doing so?

Barbara

 

[Twister_Ken]

Barbara,

No one is going to go out and look for Colros in order to sink her. Nor is anyone is likely to go out and look for her in order to salvage her. Colros's position is, effectively, unknown and the cost any professional looking for her would be many times more than she is worth as salvage.

Your best hope is that she is found (by accident, so to speak) by a vessel that is suited to towing her, and that is going in a direction that makes a tow feasible. Alternatively, that she drifts close to a shore, from where she can be spotted and salvaged.

 

[raven]

Hi Barbara,

I'm really sorry to hear that Colros has been found without David on board.

I followed the earlier thread hoping against hope that there would be a positive outcome and indeed I have to confess that learning of Davids affinity with Bernard Moitissier and his "spititual" view on sailing, I dared to hope that everything would be okay and he was indulging in some "disconnected time"

My guess is that whatever David did, he chose to do it with both eyes open and with an enormous sense of adventure, the like of which most of us can only dream of.

God bless him for having taken on the challenge and may a little of David's spirit live within all of us.

My view is that David was nothing without Colros, and Colros is nothing without David.

 

[Bajansailor]

I would also agree that Twister Ken has got it right, and in a nutshell.

I would not agree with Stingo's analogy to leaving a car on the side of a motorway. Its not exactly a motorway if the next car that happens along turns up 5 months later is it?
A better analogy would be comparing Colros' route with a very quiet sleepy dirt track across a field - and there is not going to be much traffic across that field.

Neither do I agree with Stingo's opinion 'Colros should be sunk' (I presume you mean 'Colros should have been sunk'?)

Please remember that the yacht crew who found Colros were in consultation with the Authorities (Falmouth MRCC?) and it would appear that the Authorities never issued any instructions re 'Colros should be sunk'.
And I presume that they know more than any of us do about how these situations should be handled.

There is an AWFUL LOT of rubbish floating out there, along with the odd yacht.
But the yachts are few and far between in comparison.
I have seen some of it (the rubbish) in mid-atlantic - I have seen some more washed up on the beaches on the east (windward) coast here.

To everybody who so enthusiastically declares that Colros should be / have been sunk, would you be able to make the same statement about TCM's fine vessel Mojomo if her crew had been forced to abandon ship in mid-Atlantic, far away from any possible tow?
I don't think so.
Please, lets put this sinking business to bed now.

As I mentioned earlier, Colros is part of David's family. And I think we should all be thinking now of any possible positive way that we can be of assistance to Barbara in her quest to bring Colros back home.

Colros has proven her seaworthiness without doubt - if it turns out that no other craft in the vicinity is able to salvage her, I do hope that she will carry on drifting west, and eventually get within reach of land again.

 

[tcm]

Um well, just a minute Bajan, you are using the emotive issues to reinforce a point of view. Ybw is primarily a sailing forum, not a mourning forum, so I hope we can cover the sailing aspects, and not be utterly cowed or hushed-up because someone has very unfortunately perished at sea. Because sometimes that's what happens and although very sad we should still be able to discuss.

Just to be clear (since you put me up as an example...): if long after I had been due in port someone later found my abandoned boat at sea I would have no problem at all if they sank it to reduce hazards to others if they didn't plan to tow it from that point.

Also, if I'd had the choice with somehow unuseable but irretrievably broken boat on the point of being abandoned, I would ask insurance co (by satphone, perhaps) if we could sink it for the same practical reasons of reducing the danger to others.

For the record, I am fairly sure that no relatives of mine would want the remains of the boat back, either. What exactly would they do with it?

Likewise, if swmbo died in boat (or car) then I wouldn't want to find and retrieve the remains of the vehicle either.

And, if sailing along in atlantic at night and suddenly bang we hit a unlit partially submerged boat that *could* have been scuppered, but wasn't because one day it might have been a souvenir for relatives...I would not have been at all fine about it, and nor would the relatives of any resulting casualties be okay about it either, I imagine.

I would not want the results of my trip (failed or otherwise, at sea or anywhere else) to pose even a remote -but potentially fatal risk- to others who want to try the same afterwards.

The notion that Colros has "proven her seaworthiness" is a bit odd, isn't it? Okay, it's still floating but the idea is that boats take *people* from shore to shore. In this regard, I'm afraid it failed.

Yes, of course, since they know the boat is still afloat, well then relatives feel that they have to find and retrieve it. I am not at all sure this is going to be of great comfort, but I imagine that yes, I would want to do the same in Barbara's position.

But neverheless, leaving the boat afloat does not bring back loved ones. Hence I think that taking personal effects, taking pictures, and scuppering the boat would have been best all round. Well, sadly of course there is no "best" outcome in these circumstances, just a "least bad".

Leaving it floating dodged a difficult decision, and getting the boat back won't be a particularly joyful day - grieving and getting over is delayed or extended over more months or years. Meanwhile the risk to others remains.

 

[Guest]

I would have thought that there's a reasonable chance that the yacht will eventually drift close enough to a continent to be picked up by fishermen and towed back for salvage, so I wouldn't completely give up on it yet. The question is more what state she will be in by the time she gets there, and possibly pilfered. If you remember Richard Woods catamaran...

There was another case of abandonment that I was very distantly involved in where a yacht not much bigger than Colros was abandoned mid-Atlantic following a dismasting involving quite a bit of damage. She was eventually salvaged quite some time later, and brought in to the US. The fishermen wanted a very hefty fee which was too much for the owner and not far off the value of the boat after the damage (especially taking accounts of costs of shipping the wreck back to UK). But I see that the yacht concerned eventually got back to the owner in the UK, has been renovated and is back sailing in fine condition, so I presume something more or less acceptable was eventually negotiated.

 

[Bajansailor]

Good points Matt, but I think you have avoided the point I was trying to make.
If you and your crew had been taken off a perfectly usable and NOT irretrievably broken cat (eg, like Richard Woods and Eclipse), and the boat was not insured, would you still want to sink her?

As I mentioned before, Colros when found was still in a reasonably seaworthy state - she was not simply 'remains'. And the crew of the visiting yacht apparently battened her down to help maintain this integrity. Its not necessarily the boat's fault if a crew member is lost - a boat can be ergonomically designed and have all the safety equipment, but folk are still lost at sea.

Oh, and Colros was not 'partially submerged' (unless her natural waterline is considered as such). And, from reports received, she might even have had her navigation light on - I gather that the visiting crew might have either left the light on, or switched it on, knowing the solar panels would keep the battery charged.
But we wont know the full story until a 'proper' report is received.

The bottom line here is that Barbara asked a perfectly reasonable question - she was merely asking for suggestions for how David's boat could be salvaged. She was not asking for statements saying that the boat should have been sunk.

 

[tcm]

All fair points bajan. I undertstand exactly your POV. Abandoning and uninsured i just dunno.... Tho later, when i am obviously not around, i wd say yes, scupper the boat- I (in this case David) is/am not around to use the boat again.

As you intimate and i hope i have appreciated, it is all very difficult. If I was in Barbara's position now, I would want to recover the boat.