salty cabin

[winsbury]

Having a similar issue with our Pegasus with seawater in the cabin as the OP in thread http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?244302-volume-of-water-in-Sadler-25-bilges

Two out of three sources located:

1/3. We get a very small amount of freshwater which is coming through a deck fitting which Im quite happy I can locate and deal with.

2/3 We have an inboard engine in a well and the main bilge gets a tiny bit of water from around the sole plate cover as we get a few winches of water in the cockpit that surges up via the inboard well on occasions.

3/3 The source in the cabin is not identified: We've not experienced the problem in lighter winds & seas but after a 4 hour beat in 20-25knts we had what I consider to be a lot of saltwater in the cabin bilge and underseat lockers that needed manually bailing out as there's no water route to the main bilge. While sailing we took the odd splash on deck but no greenwater and though we were heeled up to 30 degrees in the bigger gusts the gunnels weren't submerged.

The underseat lockers are all sealed with the exception of a couple of tiny gaps at the top where the bulkheads meet the hull which seems to mean saltwater ingress was from above, possibly running down behind the inner moulding which is inaccessible.

Keel bolts are all epoxy encapsulated and keels were recently sealed externally along the join with the hull so I dont think its coming in up via the bilge keels. There was some water in the compartment that houses the paddle wheel which is normally dry and has no low level route to the other compartments.

I'm thinking perhaps hull to deck joint may have some leaks the waves were able to find, does this sound reasonable ? If so, how to locate and fix?

 

[Stemar]

Hull-deck joint is always a possibility.

One trick is to spread talcum powder around the sides of suspect areas and go for a bash. Any water running down the sides, will wash it away.

Unwanted water does have a nasty habit of sneaking quite a long way from where it got in before showing itself.

 

[winsbury]

Thanks Stemar, I noticed talc was suggested in the other thread and would be a good idea but on my boat the problem is that there is an inner moulding which cant be removed and completely prevents access to the inside of the hull for the vast majority of the areas which I think could be the source. I was thinking perhaps jetwashing or perhaps just hosing along the joint to seeing if there's any evidence of bilge water increasing might give a clue. However I was also wondering if the gap ( assuming it is at the hull-deck joint) may only open up when the boat is under considerable stress and so this method might not work when on the pontoon.

 

[Stemar]

...However I was also wondering if the gap ( assuming it is at the hull-deck joint) may only open up when the boat is under considerable stress and so this method might not work when on the pontoon.

If it is the hull-deck joint, that's quite possible. Presumably, there are only limited places where water can get out from behind the inner moulding, so talc in those areas may give an idea, even if all you can do is dry the lockers and bilges and scatter a bit of powder around before going out looking for trouble (!)

If it does stump you, I'd be inclined to see if there wasn't a way of draining the cockpit lockers into the bilge and fitting an automatic bilge pump. It's managing the problem, rather than curing it but, perhaps, better than having them gradually fill up.

Good luck!

 

[winsbury]

It does seem ridiculous that there's not a drain path from the lockers to the main bilge or indeed the cabin bilge to the main bilge where I have manual and electric pumps that would take care of the symptoms if not the cause. A few drill holes in the right spots would solve it from that perspective and may well be the best way to manage it until I take her out of the water at the end of the season and can have a detailed look behind the gunwhale fender strip at the hull joint. I'll have a look at sealing up the small holes in the lockers too, perhaps this would at least keep the pasta dry !

 

[Neil_Y]

Has the boat ever had a hard bump mooring against a wall? I've seen one yacht that suffered hull/deck joint leaks after a bump other than that I'd be thinking stansion bases/mountings.

 

[HunterWanderer]

I had a leak on my Pegasus 800 round the rudder tube. Its fibreglassed in but mine wasnt very strong and the joint had cracked. Ground out the crack and the surrounding surface then built up with lots of mat and epoxy resin with boat out of water. Horrible job as access is not good.

 

[winsbury]

Has the boat ever had a hard bump mooring against a wall? I've seen one yacht that suffered hull/deck joint leaks after a bump other than that I'd be thinking stansion bases/mountings.

I don't know the full history of the boat but there are some professionally done gelcoat repairs evident if you look really close. There's a dent in one of the rubbing strakes which looks like it might be from a minor impact. Its 30+ years old so expect it will have sustained the odd knock in its life. Stanchion bases have been replaced by previous owner - they are aftermarket ones that cover the original holes so these could well be suspect, I'll take a couple off and see whats underneath.

I had a leak on my Pegasus 800 round the rudder tube. Its fibreglassed in but mine wasnt very strong and the joint had cracked. Ground out the crack and the surrounding surface then built up with lots of mat and epoxy resin with boat out of water. Horrible job as access is not good.

Rudder tube is okay - in fact very little water is in the main bilge so I don't think the problem is aft of the cabin. I agree access difficult at best but at least it would be a lot easier to diagnose if it were in the aft end of the boat.

 

[pampas]

Chain plates?

 

[winsbury]

Chain plates?

It doesn't have them externally, only U bolts on the deck and these were't submerged.

 

[Stemar]

It doesn't have them externally, only U bolts on the deck and these were't submerged.

If mine were ever submerged, the Admiral would ensure I was, too, but bashing into 20+ knots, they get plenty damp, even though only the odd splash finds its way into the cockpit. Maybe worth playing a hose on them and the stanchion plates? Do one, look in the bilges then do the other. If you find one leaking, it's probably worth resealing them all, especially the chain plates, as that's one area you REALLY don't want crevice corrosion setting in where you can't see it.

 

[winsbury]

An update ( for those interested )

we took some friends out last weekend and the extra weight in the cockpit meant we had more water coming up the engine well than usual. This translated to floating carpet in the cabin some 4 hours later in spite of relatively calm seas and barely heeling so clearly the source was via the soleplate locker. Removal of all the stuff stowed in there and careful inspection revealed the sponge rubber seal on the lid was in a poor state which must be letting copious amounts of water into the bilge but it wasnt clear why the bilge pump hadn't activated. Crawling further into the bilge with a headtorch and contorting myself I found two 4x6 inch holes; one each side of the boat where the inner and outer mouldings form the main bilge to cabin bulkhead. Clearly this has been like it since the boat was made and all the more remarkable that no one has found/fixed it before. Holes now plugged and hopeful that the problem is solved.

Subsequently talking to other boatowners at the weekend, seems its not unusual to have a route from aft bilge to/from cabin bilge but its usually a couple of drain holes with bungs for emergency use so if you're suffering a similar problem, check to see if the bungs are missing o flike mine there is a design flaw that needs sealing.

 

[Spirit of Glenans]

It does seem ridiculous that there's not a drain path from the lockers to the main bilge or indeed the cabin bilge to the main bilge where I have manual and electric pumps that would take care of the symptoms if not the cause. A few drill holes in the right spots would solve it from that perspective and may well be the best way to manage it until I take her out of the water at the end of the season and can have a detailed look behind the gunwhale fender strip at the hull joint. I'll have a look at sealing up the small holes in the lockers too, perhaps this would at least keep the pasta dry !

Having a drain path from the lockers to the bilge is all very well, but my experience , in various boats is that when heeled, bilge water finds its way into the contents of the lockers.

 

[Euphonyx]

Diagnosis in my case took time. The boat never leaked on the mooring. some water came in when it rained. Keel stepped mast. it was always fresh water and only a tiny amount. after a sail in strongish winds the bilge would fill with salt water. but only on port tack! went through all the usual investigations and eentually came to the hawse pipe (a retro fit). Its situated at the front on the stbd side and faces backwards. One day I was standing at the helm as the boat cut through waves well heeled. the water washed up the port deck and rolled back guided by the coach roof directly at the hawse pipe opening on the stbd bow deck. the flap was down but still a good bit of water was getting in. To properly diagnose I taped it up. Voila! Once taped up I had no more water. It was getting into the anchor chain locker faster than it coulfd drain when heeled upwind on port tack in anything over 18 knots and most of our sailing is done between 18 and 25 knots.

I got plumbers tape and problem solved for €3!!

 

[Seajet]

Winsbury,

thanks for coming back with the answer to your problem, always informative to the rest of us.

 

[Leighb]

We had a curious water entry problem in our 2nd year of ownership.

Water was getting into the lockers behind the galley on the port side, but only after a brisk windward trip and it was salty. At first we suspected a leaking window seal, but the route seemed wrong, eventually tracked down to a failure of the sealing between the hatch garage moulding and the deck. Water was entering on the beat, and then passing through the ventilation apertures, it then tracked laterally above the cabin headlining and emerged in the locker.

Removing the hatch garage that winter and rebedding it fixed it.

As already said where water appears may be a long way from the entry point.