Saloon Table: sticking Formica and filling small gaps?

[nigelmercier]

Saloon Table: sticking Formica and filling small gaps in teak?

Further to my other table threads, I've successfully joined the four pieces of the teak fiddle around the new table top (not fixed down yet). I used West System Epoxy, as the joins were all butt-joins on end-grain. I put a double-ended screw in the joins, one side drilled out when joining the two halves.

There are some small gaps in the joins, I wondered about using epoxy mixed with sawdust from the scrap bits of wood. Will I regret this when it comes to sanding?

I now want to stick Formica laminate onto the plywood top. In the current heat wave I can do it in the early morning, but the table is going to the Canary Islands, where the temperature is often in the 30s, and in direct sunlight.

I seem to have a choice of Evo Stik Impact, Timebond, and TX528. What is the best for this use?

Ideally I would like to use a foam roller, is this possible?

 

[PCUK]

TX528. Apply with a proper adhesive spreader and let both surfaces dry before bringing together.

 

[PCUK]

TX528

 

[nigelmercier]

Thanks all. I looked at the data sheets for TX528 and TimeBond, they appear to be identical, and I found the latter a lot cheaper.

No comments on using epoxy for filling? Too late now, I've done it

 

[pcatterall]

Int' olden days before the common thick work tops were available We used formica sheet on chipboard for all our kitchen installations. We used evostick impact then, I cant recall any failures even after several years use.

 

[VicS]

Int' olden days before the common thick work tops were available We used formica sheet on chipboard for all our kitchen installations. We used evostick impact then, I cant recall any failures even after several years use.

the only problem likely is the glue softening out in the sun in the sort of temperatures mentioned

high temp adhesives are usually recommended for head linings in these conditions, which is why Ii suggest it

 

[nigelmercier]

the only problem likely is the glue softening out in the sun in the sort of temperatures mentioned...

Good point, as always, but I think it will be OK: "Temperature: Resists up to 65C, less in humid conditions." www.farnell.com/datasheets/1504114.pdf

Note that this table is in the saloon, so the sun can only get to it through the hatches etc.

It has all gone well so far, but the filler I mixed up with epoxy and sawdust is much darker than the wood, even when the wood is wet. I'm considering cutting out a slot and using stopping.

 

[VicS]

I assumed that when you mentioned direct sunlight you were making a dual purpose table that could also be used in the cockpit.

 

[nigelmercier]

It has all gone well so far, but the filler I mixed up with epoxy and sawdust is much darker than the wood, even when the wood is wet. I'm considering cutting out a slot and using stopping.

Just found this: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?184627-wood-filler-for-teak

I find with teak dust [and epoxy], the "filler" just goes black and stays that way. I use teak dust with varnish or normal wood glue (clear).

Buggerit! I've had to cut out all my filler with a Dremel, going to experiment with teak sawdust and PVA or varnish.

 

[nigelmercier]

... going to experiment with teak sawdust and PVA or varnish.

The results are in:

Mixing varnish with teak sawdust creates a filler that is easier to work with, but produces a result that is darker than the surrounding wood, even when varnished.
Mixing PVA with a little water (10-20%) then teak sawdust produces a much closer match to the surrounding wood, but needs to be overfilled because it shrinks.
Mixing teak sawdust with West epoxy produces black filler!

 

[Blueboatman]

If you had a range of the fillers from say West or SP systems one would mix colloidal silica, say, with filleting blend and saw dust ( and theres teak and there's plantation teak) until you get the desired shade

You gonna add a sheet of plywood, perimeter clamps and a lorra weight to prevent the formica going down inconsistently?

it is common to step and overlap the teak trim btw to hide and clamp the formica edges btw but every design or refurb can be as different as you wish.. well done so far , possibly better than new, even.

 

[VicS]

The results are in:

Mixing varnish with teak sawdust creates a filler that is easier to work with, but produces a result that is darker than the surrounding wood, even when varnished.
Mixing PVA with a little water (10-20%) then teak sawdust produces a much closer match to the surrounding wood, but needs to be overfilled because it shrinks.
Mixing teak sawdust with West epoxy produces black filler!

Have to improve your wood-working skills. No filler in any joints in my table!

 

[Poignard]

My cockpit table has the corners of the fiddles finished of like this example from Howells

http://www.kjhowells.com/3312

It makes it easy to sweep off the crumbs (and allows spilt soup to run off onto the settee cushions) but does not expose the ugly end grain of the plywood. It would also reduce the amount of your filled corner joint to no more than the thickness of the plywood, making it less noticeable.

You could use WEST (or other makes) micro-balloon filler to thicken the epoxy. It is brown-coloured and very easy to sand.

But why use epoxy filler at all? Unless the gaps are very large (in which case you should do the job again or spend your life hating it! ) why not use a suitable shade of Brummer filler. These are simple to use and were very popular, and perfectly adequate, before epoxy was invented (just like CQRs before Rocnas et al came along). Most old wooden boats are probably still sailing around with a few tins of Brummer incorporated into them.

http://www.woodfillers.co.uk/green-label.htm

 

[VicS]

My cockpit table has the corners of the fiddles finished of like this example from Howells

http://www.kjhowells.com/3312

It makes it easy to sweep off the crumbs

Didn't I say something along those lines earlier in the thread?

 

[nigelmercier]

Have to improve your wood-working skills. No filler in any joints in my table!

You are right, I am no carpenter. However, I was manipulating four curved pieces of wood that had to be butt joined and still lie flat. I think I did quite well to only need about 0.5mm of filler in places. Of course when I cut out the epoxy filler, the gaps got bigger, but I think it is going to be OK. Tried Brummer BTW, didn't match.

I went with the original Impact adhesive for the Formica in the end, the plywood was so porous that it needed priming, and it is the only type you can thin with their cleaning solvent. It is currently curing while I figure out a way to trim the excess.

 

[Poignard]

Didn't I say something along those lines earlier in the thread?

You did not. But even if you had, I hope you would not object to my basking in your reflected glory, and imitation, so they say, is the sincerest form of flattery.

With the Howells style of fiddles, no exposed edge of plywood can be seen (as a closer examination of the link to their webpage will show). Whereas your table, despite being estimable in every other way, does show several inches of that particularly unnattractive feature.

 

[nigelmercier]

Why is nothing ever simple. I left the glue to cure (with the bottom surface up) in the sun. Now the plywood has warped, possibly this due to this surface drying out. I've given it a coat of diluted PVA to see what that does.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Oh the joy of laminating / veneering ply wood.

I have found with any "thin" ply (less the 19mm) you need a balancing laminate/veneer on the other side.

I have got away with it some times with thin ply doors by gluing thickish edging on.

This weekend I made a lifting base for my shower from 19mm ply and glued Formica on BOTH sides to stop it from warping

My saloon door warped and that had Formica on one side and veneer on the other side, that was 9.5mm ply.

Don't think just PVA will help.

BTW I used PU glue to glue my Formica on as contact does tend to cause more warping with a single side covering as the contact adhesive shrinks more than PU or epoxy.

 

[nigelmercier]

The table top will have a second piece of ply 100mm from the edge underneath, and the bottom will all be painted. I just need to get it flat again first. The PVA seems to be helping, as does the 30kg of weight I put on it.

 

[rogerthebodger]

The 30Kg weight will help if you over bend it in the reverse direction by a similar amount to the warp but it will take time.

My saloon table twisted after I fitted the fiddle edging and I left it clamped to my work bench for a month while I was away sailing and after I came back the twist was reduced so it is still clamped to straighten it more. Your higher humidity than Johannesburg may also help.