Sails out of helm man reach

C

cmedsailor

Well-Known Member
Joined
10 Sep 2007
Messages
1,830
Location
East Med...
Visit site
Lots of boats, including mine, have the main sheet traveller on the cabin top so you cannot reach the main sheet from the helm. For single handling I think that’s fine as long as you have a good autopilot and can reach the genoa sheets from the helm (especially for mast headboats) so you have control of at least one sail. However, I see lots of boats that have the genoa winches away from helms too. Examples are some 40+ ft Bavaria Cruisers and Visions with twin wheels with genoa winches further forward of the twin helms (that cannot be reached), or the Sun Odyssey 34.2 or some Hunters that have winches only on cabin top. So how can actually people single handle these boats if you need to leave the helm (or helms) completely to adjust any of the sails? For instance how do you handle the boat in sudden gusts (it seems you only option is to head upwind)? Certainly I don’t have the experience with such set up so don’t know if you “find the way” but I think it’s a big problem for single hanlding a boat.
 
I'd agree - although I'd also want the mainsheet within reach to dump if a big gust comes through.

Our boat actually has the compromise the other way - the jib sheet winches are on the aft cabin top - effectively the after cockpit coaming. This makes them very handy for the helm, but not ideal for crew because you have to face aft and break my old skipper's cardinal rule of "watch what you wind". I've semi-seriously thought of mounting wing mirrors on the pushpit :)

Pete
 
I think you will find that the boats you have described are very seldom sailed single-handed (a cynic might reduce that to just "seldom sailed"). If internal volume is the most important feature of a boat then cockpit size will suffer and thus the tendency to maximise this reduced area by moving winches and the mainsheet onto the coachroof.
All boats are a compromise - you just have to decide your own priorities and choose accordingly.
 
We sail short handed regularily and whilst wife snoozing , singlehanded , yup with good autopilot not a problem ( on a boat this size irrespective of where winches etc are , for short handed sailing an autohelm is essential ) , otherwise , with sails balanced flattened and set properly , you dont need to dump as frequently as you may think .

our b38 can sail itself to windward , tight reaching when overcanvassed can be a bit taxing , but most boats are .

genny winches can be reached for tacking .
 
awol said:
I think you will find that the boats you have described are very seldom sailed single-handed (a cynic might reduce that to just "seldom sailed"). If internal volume is the most important feature of a boat then cockpit size will suffer and thus the tendency to maximise this reduced area by moving winches and the mainsheet onto the coachroof.
All boats are a compromise - you just have to decide your own priorities and choose accordingly.
Click to expand...

A lot that I disagree with here on such a short post.

A comfortable boat can be lived and sailed on much more often than the old fashioned tunnel with lid style, and with long aft cabins they usually have very roomy cockpits. Putting everything on the cabin top has two advantages to mitigate the distance from the helm. Firstly they allow the cockpit to be the main living/eating space by being uncluttered, and secondly you have a stable in-cockpit position to handle all ropes without ever leaning over the side for genoa winches.

It's true that I don't often sail the boat singlehandedly but we mostly have just one person on watch, and the autopilot allows easy sail trimming, tacking and rolling sail in and out for one person - all within easy reach if you are standing at the front.

I guess the big thing is moving away from the dinghy mentality and seeing the working area as the cabin roof in front of the cockpit. That wheel thing is a parking aid and no business of the person on watch.
 
markhomer said:
genny winches can be reached for tacking .
Click to expand...

But that is fine. Same like my boat (Ben 361). I can reach genoa winches from helm and can tack single handed. Usually without the autopilot. Question is what if these (genoa winches) were not near the helm.
PS: Now you have mentioned tacking (was thinking more dumping the sails) yes, even for this simple task if genoa sheets are not near the helm you need to depend on the autopilot. This is unacceptable I think.
 
Whats unnacceptable to you is acceptable to others , dont loose sleep over it . not sure where your going with this ????
 
Agree. You adjust your style of sailing to suit the boat - or do you choose the boat to suit your style of sailing? Never know which it is!

However those used to sailing old style boats on their ears jammed in a tiny cockpit, holding onto a tiller feel is necessary to have the mainsheet across the the cockpit because it needs regular tweaking and "dumping". They would not be perhaps so comfortable in an easy going well balanced boat with a good autopilot which help to minimise the need for constant attention to the sheets. once you adjust your expectations to meet what the boat needs it is not a problem.
 
No, I am not gonna loose my sleep!
Basically I have a boat that can (and have) singlhandle perfectly but sometimes think of going bigger (something around the 39-43ft). I "examine" lots of boats and see things that could probably make things, that I currently do, more difficult. In another thread I mentioned that I don't like the throttle lever, in most dual wheel boats, so slow that you need to bent your knees to control. Another detail I don't really like.
I am used to a specific layout and have learnt how to use it. On the other hand, yes, I understand that you always need to adapt.
 
Tranona said:
Agree. You adjust your style of sailing to suit the boat - or do you choose the boat to suit your style of sailing? Never know which it is!

However those used to sailing old style boats on their ears jammed in a tiny cockpit, holding onto a tiller feel is necessary to have the mainsheet across the the cockpit because it needs regular tweaking and "dumping". They would not be perhaps so comfortable in an easy going well balanced boat with a good autopilot which help to minimise the need for constant attention to the sheets. once you adjust your expectations to meet what the boat needs it is not a problem.
Click to expand...

Not sure about that. Certainly I'd suggest that modern boats with big backsides and mainsheets across the coach roof are actually more likely to need a sheet dump!

To me it's a style of sailing thing. Whenever I've been on watch alone on a boat with everything out of reach of the helm I've always sailed much more conservatively than when on watch alone in a properly set up boat. So a boat which you can dump the main from the wheel etc allows you to push a bit harder.
Although actually this is less of an issue passage making than it is solent sailing, as to work a boat laid out in the modern way in gusty (hardly unusual) conditions in the Solent requires the attention of 2 people, unless you're happy to be reefed for the gusts, not the lulls. The thought of sailing in confined waters without a full crew or being able to reach the mainsheet gives me the heebie jeebies!
 
whatabout a dehler 39 cws , everything led to helm there and fits 39 to 43 foot requirement , sail very well , bullet proof , though interior may be like marmite :)




awol think your self parking option is close with "Jeanneau’s much-vaunted 360 Docking system, incorporating a 360-degree rotating sail drive leg and bow thruster, which is purported to make parking up idiot-proof." quote from review .



ps I only use autohelm when sailing as temporary spare set of hands and the main man when motoring in torrential rain :)
 
Last edited:
awol said:
I think you will find that the boats you have described are very seldom sailed single-handed (a cynic might reduce that to just "seldom sailed"). If internal volume is the most important feature of a boat then cockpit size will suffer and thus the tendency to maximise this reduced area by moving winches and the mainsheet onto the coachroof.
All boats are a compromise - you just have to decide your own priorities and choose accordingly.
Click to expand...

I bought my boat in May ( Jen 36) and have logged over 1000 miles single handed since, and another 300 in the more testing conditions of having SWMBO as crew. The main cannot be trimmed from the helm and I anticipated this as a problem, with plans to rove the mainsheet back to the primarys. As an interim measure I perfected flicking the sheet off the coachroof ST winch from the helm, with the clutch left open, to facilitate emergency dumping.
In the event, all this has been completely unnecessary. Any gust threatening to over power the boat can be easily anticipated. Accept you cannot sail any boat single handed as you would with a full racing crew and be proactive.
 
Last edited:
I really don't understand this problem with letting the main sheet go.

As far as I can see it's either because the weather is too gusty to sail comfortably, in which case reef ... done safely and easily from our cockpit, or because you need to bear away to avoid something or someone.

Surely that's more of a racing scenario OR a busy Solent weekend.

We've had our boat for eight years and there hasn't been one occasion where it's caused a problem.

I see Rassy now mount the track on the coach roof :cool:
 
flaming said:
Extraordinary statement!

A lot of people like to helm on watch, it's fun!
Click to expand...

Course it's fun, and I should have added that. I do find, though, that I get more out of tweaking the ropes than the helm to keep the right amount of sail out, and trimmed for the conditions, and leave the autopilot on for direction. Wouldn't work if racing but I suspect it leads to faster cruising passages than being stuck at the helm with only occasional adjustments to the size or angle of the sails.
 
flaming said:
Not sure about that. Certainly I'd suggest that modern boats with big backsides and mainsheets across the coach roof are actually more likely to need a sheet dump!

To me it's a style of sailing thing. Whenever I've been on watch alone on a boat with everything out of reach of the helm I've always sailed much more conservatively than when on watch alone in a properly set up boat. So a boat which you can dump the main from the wheel etc allows you to push a bit harder.
Although actually this is less of an issue passage making than it is solent sailing, as to work a boat laid out in the modern way in gusty (hardly unusual) conditions in the Solent requires the attention of 2 people, unless you're happy to be reefed for the gusts, not the lulls. The thought of sailing in confined waters without a full crew or being able to reach the mainsheet gives me the heebie jeebies!
Click to expand...

Seems you are in agreement with me. Can't argue with the tendency to round up - but that is a case of avoiding sailing the boat in such a way that it can happen. Of course if you push them hard they will not behave in the same way as older narrower boats - so don't expect to sail them in the same way.

If I wanted a boat for use in congested waters and where short tacking is common or I was looking to race I would not buy a big fat boat. However if I wanted a big open cockpit, two aft cabins etc., and undemanding sailing in open waters, I would - and have! Just learn to use the characteristics of the boat and you find that many of what others perceive as problems go away.
 
RupertW said:
Course it's fun, and I should have added that. I do find, though, that I get more out of tweaking the ropes than the helm to keep the right amount of sail out, and trimmed for the conditions, and leave the autopilot on for direction. Wouldn't work if racing but I suspect it leads to faster cruising passages than being stuck at the helm with only occasional adjustments to the size or angle of the sails.
Click to expand...
Exactly. That's why line's arrangement is not put down on marble. I moved main's sheets (2) from coach roof to winches close to helm
 
While my boat is not ' narrow and tunnel like ' I'd like to know why an aft cabin is a benefit to helming, they usually result in a shallow cockpit and more a feeling of being on stage with Led Zep' than being secure in a seaboat !

Flaming is talking sense here, while it's sensible to sail a little conservatively when singlehanded, I still want my helm & ' throttle ' ( mainsheet for a start ) to be easy to hand.

Trundling along with sails reduced and sheets out of reach is not what it's supposed to be about, unless one's on a motorsailor just trying to save fuel ? :rolleyes:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Other threads that may be of interest

P
Essential pre purchase or even pre survey checks
2
Replies
28
Views
915
Refueler
Refueler

Share this page

Top