Sails and sailmakers

DoubleEnder

DoubleEnder

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At some time in the next few months Nyachilwa will be launched,I hope, and at some time after that I will (I know) feel the urge to buy sails. Recommendations sought for an E Coast based Bermudan sloop, 34' with a rig thats about 5/8 fractional.

I actually have an American built main that looks OK, heavy but softish cloth, heavily roped and in decent nick. But though it looks good on the lawn I've never used it, or any of the headsails. And after all the work done on the hull I quite fancy something go-fast. Any ideas about sails or sailcloth? I cant afford and dont want the latest in hi tec but I wouldnt mind some advice on modern materials and makers that are compatible with a Fife design, that will look good and perform well.

Thank you
 
Speak to Jeckells, they are very good and very helpful. I would say you dont want anything too modern/hitec for a Fife! IMHO Clipper canvas is soft and very good.
 
I believe the best known East Coast sailmaker for classic yachts is James Lawrence at Brightlingsea - they seem to do most of the Old Gaffers, and certainly made a very good job of Nancy Blackett's new jib and staysail last year - they're measuring for the main next.

I'm pretty sure that when he reads this thread "Mirelle" will recommend Gayle Heard, (if they still use that name?), in I think Tollesbury. I was sailing on Mirelle earlier this month, and I have to say her sails are a joy to behold, being beautifully cut and beautifully made.

I suspect that either sailmaker would be able to give good advice on an appropriate material.

Do keep this forum posted on your launch, and perhaps put a picture up for us to see. Good luck.
 
Willie Leitch at Tarbert, Argyll builds a good sail for classic yachts and wasn't too expensive the last time I used him just don't expect it "tomorrow" as I believe willie's motto should be "don't do today what you can put off until tomorrow""!!!
 
Re "Speak to Jeckells, they are very good and very helpful. I would say you dont want anything too modern/hitec for a Fife! IMHO Clipper canvas is soft and very good. "

I had some sails made by Jeckells three years ago; no problems. Two years ago I wanted an additional sail, and alterations to the year old foresail, and it couldn't have been a worse experience. Continually promising something they couldn't deliver, with a range a excuses, which I've no way of knowing whether true, but ultimately I would never go back to them. Now based at Bradwell I'd try the sailmakers at West Mersea (Govans?) or James Lawrence at Brighlingsea as noted above, wish I'd gone to them in the first place!

IanC
 
On the cloth front, I'd say you've got two choices for something appropriate to a Fife design. You could go for the Clipper that ccscott49 mentioned, which would suit a more traditional finish (sewn eyelets, handsewn boltropes etc) and keeps its shape reasonably well, or a soft terelene. The nicest brand I'm familiar with is called Contender which comes in white and cream (and other colours) and is quite a soft finish, fairly pleasant to handle. Terelene would be the cheaper option and better if you're feeling competetive, Clipper a bit more expensive but lovely to handle and more authentic-looking.
 
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Now based at Bradwell I'd try the sailmakers at West Mersea (Govans?)

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I believe they are, or were, called Gowans, and are now owned by Oyster Marine. They seem to have a pretty good reputation.
 
An arch-traditionalist view.

Part of the pleasure of an old fashioned boat lies in handling, using and just looking at old fashioned sails. This is not just a matter of hand roping and working cringles but extends to the width of the panels and the style of cutting, and of course the material itself.

I will start by saying that I don't care for "Clipper", "Duradon" or any of the other plastic fantastic traditional lookalike sailcloths. I've got a Clipper headsail and a Duradon mainsail on the dayboat and I'm not persuaded.

But, obviously, if you have natural fibre sails you must take care of them.

Gayle Heard has retired (almost completely) and handed his business on to Stephen Hall who trades under the name of North Sea Sails from, appropriately enough, one of the Big Class gear stores in Tollesbury - telephone 01621 869367.

If you sail a traditional boat on the East Coast you may choose between Mark Butler at James Lawrence or Stephen Hall at North Sea Sails, and my advice would be to call on both, discuss your wishes, and select accordingly, were the boat gaff rigged and intended to race occasionally. However, for a Bermudian boat there are other factors to consider.

Jeckells command a following as do Gowens at West Mersea. Taylors at Maldon closed some years ago. Gowens cutting books must be an interesting resource for fast classic Bermudian sails and since they are located between Tollesbury and Brightlingsea I would recommend calling on them as well.

Mirelle's working sails are a Terylene/cotton mixture, made up traditionally in narrow panels and oil and ochre dressed. This cloth is very hard to come by, and in the eyes of many it is undesirable, as of course it is very subject to mildew, unless dressed. However, it has all the virtues of a traditional cloth as well as being strong and able to hold shape well.

Mark at James Lawrence showed me a roll of this cloth in a medium weight when I was looking for a staysail; it was a bit light for what I wanted but might suit a 34 foot Fife.

Stephen at North Sea Sails thinks he may be onto a source of "proper" long staple cotton sailcloth, a thing that has not been seen apart from using up old stock for forty years or so. He tells me that there is a Dutch classic racing association which bans the use of plastics in sails and insists on all natural fibre.

I would not go so far as to recommend traditional materials for light sails. These spend so long in the locker that nylon and where appropriate terylene are the only games in town.
 
Thank you, everybody and especially Mirelle for taking so much time and trouble. I'm not a complete purist: I've put a shiny new little diesel in and will fit a chart plotter as soon as I've found a good place to hide it. But neither am I a complete impurist (?)and I do want to to do the right thing - I've seen various photos of restored/rebuilt Fifes with smart new 'classsic' looking sails but have no idea about drawbacks, costs, handleability, durability or performance.

Having spent so much time and effort and all the kids' inheritance on getting the boat fixed, fair (and I think fast) I don't want to let her down.....There's no major rush on for the sails, we'll hopefully launch in the spring, and one of the first-post launch jobs will be to review, remeasure and replace the standing rigging which is old, saggy and motley like me. So it's more likely to be an order for new sails next winter - I was just wondering if there'd be anyone at LIBS worth talking to.

Thanks to all again
Graham
 
Rigging and riggers

Of course, you are not going to do anything dreadful like using swaged terminals!

Traditional riggers are simpler than sailmakers; there are only two games in town, here.

Your choice lies between TS Rigging, in Maldon and Spencer Rigging, in Cowes

Again, I'd talk to both and decide whom you will like to deal with. I used Spencers 20 years ago but I am just ordering something from TS Rigging because they are nearer; nothing to choose between them for me. I should add that galvanised wire seems at least as durable as stainless; or if anything more so.

(I am not by any means a complete purist - I hid the GPS, the switch panel, echosounder and log repeaters in a cupboard behind the chart table. )
 
Re: Rigging and riggers

It's a good point, and all the nicer as the boat is poised on the cusp of traditional and more modern technology. The design dates from 1939, but she was launched in 1952. The construction is mainly 30s technology, carvel mahogany on oak, but with 1950s elements - eg hanging knees rivetted (!!) from aircraft aluminium alloy. There are some very nice 1950s fittings, eg chromed nav lights and locker furniture. So what's right for the rigging - hand splices or roll swages?

Same goes for running rigging. I bought the boat with a dogs dinner of alterations bodges and replacements. I have running backstays, which I assume would have been rigged with soft wire, but which I'm very tempted to rerig with something lighter. I believe that some of the big Fifes in the Med. use Spectra or whatever.....Makes it a lot easier to handle the leeward backstay and get it out of the way, less chafe, less weight.

I've also got a wire reel winch for the main halyard which I don't like the look of at all. Useless for sending someone up the mast IMHO as its very difficult to ease gradually. All very well for the sail to drop fast but. . . .

Trying to figure out how to post pics which may be of interest
 
Re: Rigging and riggers

Very nice points!

Mirelle is practically the same age as Nyachilwa; built in '37, but she was a backward-looking design. When I bought her in 84 she had been re-engined and had terylene sails and running rigging but was otherwise original. I have changed a lot of things, including everything below decks, but retained the on deck appearance apart from removing the guard wires and stanchions (she was built with these!) as they always caused deck leaks, fitting a pair of sheet winches and switching from tackles to Highfield levers for the runners. The levers in question were acquired at an Ipswich boat jumble, from the owner of a 1937 Robert Clark boat who had just removed them as he did not think they were original - I strongly suspect that they were!

Mirelle had oil navigation lights and binnacle lights, but electric light below decks (lead covered conduit!). It's now the other way round!

A good source for you might be an early edition of John Illingworth's "Offshore", along with a perusal of Yachting World Annuals for the day. Illingworth was a tremendous enthusiast for the latest technology. so if he mentions something, eg alloy masts, one can be sure that they were "just coming in!"

However, I'm quite sure that the standing rigging would have been galvanised and hand spliced. I am told (by Ed Burnett!) that it is possible to get a type of stainless wire which looks like galvanised, which might be a compromise. The runner falls, if going to levers, would indeed have been galvanised flexible wire. I thought that this was no longer made, but a check with TS riging reveals that it can still be had. Otherwise, the choice is between Spectra and flexible stainless wire - with hand splices!

Edited to add - I bet that horrible wire retaining winch is original! There were several contemporary dead cunning devices for avoiding them, though. She may well have had roller reefing, also.

I think the wire retaining winch raises a point - at what point does the desirability of greater safety outweigh originality? I would not have a petrol engine, for instance, nor would I rely on oil sidelights. On the other hand. I have never found a really good place to stow the liferaft!
 
Re: Rigging and riggers

Nice point about the Highfield levers from the Robert Clark.

On my father's the original set up was a 'shoe' which ran along a wire strop which you 'flicked' on and just gave a shove to release. You could get a decent tension by this method. Admittedly when we replaced the tongue and groove deck with ply we changed the system to blocks. Down side to that was that you have them thrashing about on the leeward side.

We also purchased a mainsail from Wm Leitch in Tarbert. Even though we gave him the sail plan, the cut of the sail has never been satisfactory, and the overall quality of the finish was adequate to say the least.

I would go back to her original sailmakes Rapsey & Lapthorns when the next main is due (Headsail is by Saturn - and a wee beauty it is too.)

Donald
 
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