Sailing with a dog to France and back

macd said:
Worryingly ambiguous. Does the "may be transported by any airline or ferry company" include or exclude other means of transport?
I've no axe to grind here, maby: just concerned to identify the true situation.
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See my second post!
 
macd said:
Thanks. It appeared whilst I was typing. Seems to clear it up nicely.

So, to return to the OP's question: he can take his dog to France for a couple of days, providing he returns via Ireland? Hope it's a greyhound.
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It must be stressed that that is an RYA interpretation and I can't immediately find confirmation of it on the Irish government web site.
 
maby said:
I think you are right on this - the law only applies once the animal has set foot on foreign soil. I'm not sure that there is any requirement to keep them below deck. I guess the logic is that there is nothing to stop you taking your dog or cat aboard in an English marina and going out for a day sailing - and that sail could extend right up to the French coast without implying any restriction on the animal when you return to this country. I suppose that the restriction could start to apply when you actually tie up to a French pontoon, but how about those that anchor up and go ashore by dinghy?
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We have left the South Coast many times with our dog on board and returned 2/3 weeks later. Needless to say we did not go to the French Mainland but no one in the UK would realistically know that. Indeed we were boarded (in a very friendly way) by the Border Force once on arrival in Eastbourne. I asked them if it was because we had a dog on board - before coming on board they hadn't even realised there was a dog!!!
It is ridiculous that we cannot legally bring our dog back into the UK on our yacht. We have driven abroad numerous times with the dog (and correct documentation) and returned without any problems and with minimal checks. Whilst I understand the need for checks (£15 to compare microchip number with pet passport!!!) the potential to just come back without anyone knowing is massive...
 
ashtead said:
On basis that you can legally take your dog to CI can it land now or does it have for example to stay on the pontoon? I can recall that the local greeting at St Peter Port is " Do you have a dog on board". If however it does permit visiting dogs are there not risks of French dogs landing? I believe you can sail from France to Ireland and land for walkies ? There also seems to be no restrictions on dogs travelling across Irish Sea ?
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Been ashore many times in CIs with dog. The only restriction is that you have come DIRECTLY from UK/Eire. Additionally been to Eire and back to UK with dog with no checks/restrictions.
Apparently it is legal to travel directly from France to Eire and then into UK without checks/restrictions but we have never tested this.
 
dslittle said:
......
We have driven abroad numerous times with the dog (and correct documentation) and returned without any problems and with minimal checks. Whilst I understand the need for checks (£15 to compare microchip number with pet passport!!!) the potential to just come back without anyone knowing is massive...
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The best solution would be for the government to allow marinas to register as ports of entry for pets and to conduct the checks for a fee. I would happily pay MDL £50 to book the cat back into the country.
 
maby said:
The best solution would be for the government to allow marinas to register as ports of entry for pets and to conduct the checks for a fee. I would happily pay MDL £50 to book the cat back into the country.
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Then you should encourage your marina to apply to DEFRA (from memory) Mr Maby. They would need to buy a chip reader and provide secure holding, and proper care for all illegal animals whilst in their care. They'd receive an initial Ministry vet inspection to get the go-ahead, thereafter irregular inspections; hygiene, security.
 
EdWingfield said:
Then you should encourage your marina to apply to DEFRA (from memory) Mr Maby. They would need to buy a chip reader and provide secure holding, and proper care for all illegal animals whilst in their care. They'd receive an initial Ministry vet inspection to get the go-ahead, thereafter irregular inspections; hygiene, security.
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Are you suggesting that there is already provision in law to do this? It was my belief that the UK government specifically bans the use of private craft to transport pets.
 
maby said:
Are you suggesting that there is already provision in law to do this? It was my belief that the UK government specifically bans the use of private craft to transport pets.
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No Sir, I suggest it is about using 'Approved Routes'. You must seek approval. As far as I know there are few successfully approved routes: Dover, Heathrow, Glasgow (airport), North Shields, Belfast. There will be more. Companies have ARs. (presumably because it is good business and worth all the hassle) I know of no marina that has sought approval.
 
maby said:
I don't see how the rules about not allowing them out of the car increase profits - they will charge at least as much either way. I think it is more a reaction to the extreme irresponsibility of some dog owners. Far too many people own large and aggressive dogs as a fashion accessory - and ferries are relatively confined spaces. A dog going mad on a crowded ferry could do a lot of damage - it's simply easier to insist that they are all confined for the duration of the crossing.
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The point I was trying to make is that if I filled my car with luggage there is no extra charge, but put 2 dogs there instead and hey presto, that will be an extra £50!
 
maby said:
Are you suggesting that there is already provision in law to do this? It was my belief that the UK government specifically bans the use of private craft to transport pets.
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Everything you have written concurs with my understanding of the stupid and largely unenforceable system that's in place in the U.K.

9 years ago we decided to spend 4 months in France on board our boat with our 2 dogs. We did all the legal requirements, vaccinations and pet passports and then arranged for a relative to drive over and take the dogs back with her in the car. Even that was a very trying time as it transpired that our vet, who we paid to complete all the paperwork and pet passport, had missed including the date of the microchip for one of the dogs. What the relevance of this is, I'll never know, as the microchip number was correct and the reader confirmed the same, but our relative was on the verge of being refused entry onto the ferry! By this time we were about 3 hours out from France so unable to do anything. At the last moment common sense was restored when the vet said she was going for a cup of coffee and provided there was a date in the passport when she returned, all would be ok!

All very petty and quite worrying at the time.

When we were away we met another couple on their own boat, again with 2 dogs, and their plan was to do all the necessary requirements re worming etc in France and then to set off back home with the dogs on their own boat. This they had done for years without any issues, and apart from not using a recognised ferry route, everything else was strictly by the book. We too have been many times since to the CIs and returned home with no problems. And who was to know whether we had been to France or not? It is a crazy, stupid system, but still we have not been prepared to put it to the test by stretching the rules. Sadly that has meant no more trips to France on our own boat.
 
We got a friend to drive to France, collect our dog and bring him back by ferry.
The captain and crew of the Border Patrol 'battleship' next to us in Ramsgate admitted they did not realise it was against the law to bring the dog back ourselves on board. They checked and confirmed we were correct in law but said that they were geared up for two footed interlopers and weren't bothered about dogs.
 
Everything you have written concurs with my understanding of the stupid and largely unenforceable system that's in place in the U.K.

Out of interest LongJohn, How would you prefer the law to be? Bear in mind our probs with Foot and Mouth, and BSE.
 
I was tempted to ignore the law and bring the dog back on board until my wife pointed out that if the dog was quarantined then I may as well join him in the cage for 6 months as my life would not be worth living at home.
 
EdWingfield said:
Everything you have written concurs with my understanding of the stupid and largely unenforceable system that's in place in the U.K.

Out of interest LongJohn, How would you prefer the law to be? Bear in mind our probs with Foot and Mouth, and BSE.
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As mentioned earlier it would be useful if there are a few ports or marinas where you could land your pets. All they would need is a microchip reader and a basic understanding of the regulations. A tick box form would probably be sufficient. It's certainly not rocket science.

Like many others I'm pretty sure I've seen both cats and dogs on foreign boats in U.K. Ports that I bet haven't followed the regs.
 
longjohnsilver said:
As mentioned earlier it would be useful if there are a few ports or marinas where you could land your pets. All they would need is a microchip reader and a basic understanding of the regulations. A tick box form would probably be sufficient. It's certainly not rocket science.
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Whilst I agree that much of the system is nonsense, as somebody pointed out earlier, the reception facilities (for want of a better expression) would surely be more elaborate than you describe. The problem wouldn't be processing the 'legal' pets, but the means to deal with ones which fail in some way. Marinas aren't equipped for that.
 
dslittle said:
It is ridiculous that we cannot legally bring our dog back into the UK on our yacht..
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Whilst one can accept that the law may in many people's mind is an ass, one has to take into account the consequences of the import of a disease like rabies. Whilst I agree that this is not prevalent in northern Europe the Uk is free of this & similar such diseases. I am not by any means an expert on such diseases, but I do recall reading some years ago what would happen if a case of rabies was to be found in an area of say, Ramsgate.
The article ( this may have been superseded I admit & those in the vet trade may wish to comment) suggested a massive extermination of all pets, inc dogs & cats, for tens of miles around. Wild life such as crows & foxes ( Foxes have been known to travel 40 miles in one night). I do not know the full list but it was extensive.
The point I am making is that because some ar..se decides that they can bring their dog back & forward at will, because they know better & want to drag a dog abroad, a whole load of people will see their pets exterminated.

I do not have any pets, but i was bought up in a household with dogs & a cat & to loose one always bought sadness to us all. Whilst I do not like dogs ( having had to put up with endless barking, being bitten a number of times, dog mess etc etc) I understand how people get attached to them. So the loss due to some muppet with a diseased dog from abroad would not go down too well. Leave the damned thing at home, injections or no injections.
Alternatively just stick to the rules & accept them. otherwise speak to your MP & get the law changed
 
Daydream believer said:
Whilst one can accept that the law may in many people's mind is an ass
Alternatively just stick to the rules & accept them. otherwise speak to your MP & get the law changed
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I do stick to the rules, as stupid as I consider them to be.

And as to speaking to my MP and getting the rules changed! Oh if only it was that easy! Hello Mr MP, can you please change the rule on pet passports? Oh yes, with pleasure, I'll try and fit it in tomorrow.;)
 
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