Sailing to Guernsey - what electronic safety equipment is recommended
- Thread starter picardy
- Start date
Piers
Well-Known Member
Or even *where* it arises in the Rules
Oops, thread drift to COLREGS?
Appledore
Well-Known Member
Thanks Piers,
I was going to 'go there', but if you can't work it out for yourself, perhaps you shouldn't try crossing the Channel.
Piers
Well-Known Member
Sorry appledore, I don't follow "if you can't work it out for yourself, perhaps you shouldn't try crossing the Channel". If you can let me know the "it" I will try and answer.
All the best for a great New Year.
Appledore
Well-Known Member
I was referring to the Col Regs. But that is off topic, so I didn't want to start quoting 'Chapter and Verse' Always controversial. Small boats and big ships sometimes seem to have their own set of rules.
Piers
Well-Known Member
I was referring to the Col Regs. But that is off topic, so I didn't want to start quoting 'Chapter and Verse' Always controversial. Small boats and big ships sometimes seem to have their own set of rules.
No probs.
BlueSkyNick
Well-Known Member
For the first time I can recall, John, I totally disagree with something you have written !!
The majority of ships do not take any action, although they may well have decided that none is necessary - a miss is as good as a mile. I have had two incidents, one positive and one negative which made me believe that you can't make any assumptions.
Firstly, crossing southwards in fog, with good crew I sat at the chart table and monitored the radar and AIS (on a PC). Another yacht came up on Ch16 calling all ships in the area as he was approaching the W-E lane with no AIS or Radar and wanted to know that he had been seen. I was able to see him on radar, and relay to him what I was seeing on AIS. He then called one ship direct, which was a huge Maersk container carrier doing about 25knots. A very english voice came back saying he could 'see' both of us, and there was nothing to worry about - a couple of minutes later we heard the ship rumble across ahead of us !
On another occasion coming back on a clear sunny day, sailing on a converging course with a ship, decided to stand on and keep going. I started the engine and powered ahead to be 100% certain, as one of my crew was nervous. After the event, and with the benefit of his MMSI from AIS, I made a DSC call which got cleared with no response, so I repeated the call with the same outcome. Then called twice on Ch16 with no response.
Forumite 'graham' deals with large ships all day in his job, and came with me on one of the early Scuttlebutt trips to Cherbourg. His advice was to assume there is only a Liberian cocaine addict on the bridge, who's having a kip at the time, until you know any different. It works for me.
Having said all that I do agree with
Several others have said a depth sounder is essential - I would rate a pair of binocs and decent H/B compass close to the top of my list.
BlueSkyNick
Well-Known Member
I think you are missing the point that alant and jerrytug are both deviously trying to make, because it comes up on here with regular monotony - there is no such thing as 'right of way' in the Colregs.
Piers
Well-Known Member
Agreed. I just didn't want to be the one to say it!
Appledore
Well-Known Member
No, I knew what tack they were on, LOL!! As I said previously, the Mark 1 Eyeball is as good as anything, followed by common sense.
Happy New Year to you all.
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
I am not sure that we are in disagreement. My experience is that some yacht skippers are paranoid about shipping and don't feel comfortable unless the CPA is measured in multiple miles. This coupled with the fact that ships don't make radical alterations of course, (even though the IRPCS say that it should be an 'obvious' alteration…) the ship tends to 'tweak' the course slightly and if they see that you are going to pass behind them by a few hundred metres they often don't worry. Its been discussed here before, but the final factor is that the bearing doesn't change very much at first. The result is that sometimes inexperienced skippers take avoiding action swearing that the ship hasn't seen them and is carrying on regardless. My experience of AIS is that inexperienced skippers can see that the ship that appears to be on a steady bearing when its 6 miles away is going to miss them by half a mile.
I agree totally with the suggestion that you assume all watch keepers are cocaine sniffing Liberian drug addicts, but I can count on one hand the number of times I have had to change course and avoid collision when I have been stand on vessel and crossing the channel. In fact I can only remember three in the last twenty years.
Its watching out for the possibility of number four that made me write, "Be sensible". I was interested in your comments about the VHF as I tend to never call a ship up. Its nearly always criticised in the MAIB reports and I thought the practice was officially 'discouraged'. The exception to this is when in deep Ocean where the bridge watch keeper is always delighted to have a chat to break the monotony of his/her watch.
Perhaps I should have said that the majority of ships do see you and do ensure that they don't collide with you when they are in open waters. The odd exception does nothing to alter this view except to remind us all to keep a good lookout and monitor things closely. I totally agree that binoculars and a hand bearing compass are essential.
GHA
Well-Known Member
Agree, also from ais well offshore, any course changes by ships to leave more sea room are often done before the ship appears over the horizon.
PuppySocks
Active Member
IMHO a ship is not going to willingly hit you, if you are stand or not if they have seen you.
As John says calling a ship in a TSS/ busy waters is possibly not the most productive for them...
As John says ships tend to alter a few degrees rather than by bold alterations. Bold alterations are for when things are not going to plan.
The assumptions about OOW's are a bit harsh but from a small boat point of view not a bad assumption to make. Only because you do not know which ships have seen you and which ones have not.
In my experience most ships will alter at about 6 miles, and try and keep about one mile if possible if not they will act as they see fit.
Remember these guys are used to dodging small craft fishing boats etc are common world wide. Its quite probable they have avoided more yachts than you have ships...
As John says calling a ship in a TSS/ busy waters is possibly not the most productive for them...
As John says ships tend to alter a few degrees rather than by bold alterations. Bold alterations are for when things are not going to plan.
The assumptions about OOW's are a bit harsh but from a small boat point of view not a bad assumption to make. Only because you do not know which ships have seen you and which ones have not.
In my experience most ships will alter at about 6 miles, and try and keep about one mile if possible if not they will act as they see fit.
Remember these guys are used to dodging small craft fishing boats etc are common world wide. Its quite probable they have avoided more yachts than you have ships...
alant
Well-Known Member
I was referring to the Col Regs. But that is off topic, so I didn't want to start quoting 'Chapter and Verse' Always controversial. Small boats and big ships sometimes seem to have their own set of rules.
Really?
Big steel ship v small (22' in your case) sailboat!
Let me just think about that a little more.
alant
Well-Known Member
As well as the obvious point regarding 'right of way', the point I was making, was clearly demonstrated, whilst on board one of the BT Challenge yachts when close to Cowes on a foggy Sunday morning. A yacht (one of the Port Solent fleet), hurtled/burst out of the fog about 10 metres away (under full sail + engine flat out) & when the shock of seeing a 67' yacht near him, shouted "starboard" (?).
Our skipper's reply was "steel"!
It is plain stupidity, to even think a small plastic boat, can intimidate a large steel merchant vessel, so why even consider it? The results will resemble walking into the road, in front of a big red bus.
PS The merchant vessels are monitoring any vessel the can 'see', when in crowded shipping lanes & must take account of other merchant vessel movements (often not visible to a small yacht) before changing speed/heading even by a degree. So, perhaps suddenly changing your speed, by using/increasing your engine revs, can upset this 'fine-tuning'. All attemps to notify shipping, should be made if you change heading/speed, even as an 'all ships call'.