Kukri
Well-Known Member
After thirty years with lug rigged Nutshells as tenders, I would rather have a gunter rig.
Sailing tender with standing lug rig?
- Thread starter Ladybirdgaffcutter
- Start date
Sybarite
Well-Known Member
I think that this one is pretty. It's a nesting dinghy as well.
https://nestawayboats.com/shop/nestaway-9ft-clinker-stem-dinghy/
https://nestawayboats.com/shop/nestaway-9ft-clinker-stem-dinghy/
oldmanofthehills
Well-Known Member
At that price I could buy another second hand yacht
She has nice lines, thanks for the suggestion, I was hoping for a price with fewer zeros on the end!
DownWest
Well-Known Member
Over on the Wooden Boat Forum, they have plans for the Nutshell pram. 7ft6 or 9ft6 in glued clinker. Nice little project for the winter and takes a lug rig well.
Just noticed that Minn has posted on Nutshells
Here is the info on the site: https://www.woodenboatstore.com/product/plan_9_6_Nutshell_Pram.
If you have basic wood skills, not difficult to build in spare time before next season. My much more complicated Whilly Tern was completed in Oct to May, including the sails and trailer, in spare time and some week/end work. Cost was around £1200 for the complete job. 2007 prices, but I reckon you could do the Nutshell for half that, or less, even now.
If sails worry you, Sailrite do kits. Local friend bought one for his grandson's little pram, borrowed my (domestic) sewing machine and produced a nice sail.
DW
Just noticed that Minn has posted on Nutshells
Here is the info on the site: https://www.woodenboatstore.com/product/plan_9_6_Nutshell_Pram.
If you have basic wood skills, not difficult to build in spare time before next season. My much more complicated Whilly Tern was completed in Oct to May, including the sails and trailer, in spare time and some week/end work. Cost was around £1200 for the complete job. 2007 prices, but I reckon you could do the Nutshell for half that, or less, even now.
If sails worry you, Sailrite do kits. Local friend bought one for his grandson's little pram, borrowed my (domestic) sewing machine and produced a nice sail.
DW
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Romeo
Well-Known Member
If the principal purpose is as a tender, then you will benefit from having no stays, and being able to quickly drop and stow the sail while sitting on the rowing thwart. And then being able to row with the sail stowed. That is where a lug rig will win.
You should be able to make better windward performance under oar anyway. The sails are there to add to fun, rather than to impress with your windward performance.
You should be able to make better windward performance under oar anyway. The sails are there to add to fun, rather than to impress with your windward performance.
geem
Well-Known Member
I have a 12'5" nesting dinghy. Built from glass. Molded of a Hershoff sailing dinghy originally but modified with a chine. It has a windsurfing mast and 'leg of mutton rig'. It sails to windward like a witch. We have 10hp and 15hp engines for it. It rows very well with 7' oars. It has carbon reinforcement to the transom and daggerboard case. Does over 20kts with the 15hp. Weight empty is 50kg. It nests on deck as a 7' package so smaller than a rib. Nothing else like on the market. It's also 25years old. Bulkheads, buoyancy tanks and forward locker are foam core construction. A true do it all dinghy
lw395
Well-Known Member
That seems to me, a defeatist view of a sailing tender.
A Mirror can sail handily to windward much more easily than anything comparable can be rowed.
There are small boats where the sails work properly.
Apologists for bad designs which are better being rowed don't help anyone.
Romeo
Well-Known Member
Maybe you are just very poor at rowing. Going dead upwind I will always beat a mirror being sailed, without going flat out. For a tender, I am not being an apologist for anything by suggesting that it is a good idea to be able to convert easily at sea from sail to oar. Seems common sense to me.
I have a pretty broad experience of sailing this sort of boat and have tried standing, dipping and balanced lug rigs as well as bermudan, sprit, gunter and gaff rigs. So please don't dismiss me as a defeatist or apologist.
Kukri
Well-Known Member
Sorry, not that Nutshell. The British one, originally sold as a kit by Malcolm Goodwin and now by Barrowboats. This is the one I have now:
I built this one in 1992:
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Kelpie
Well-Known Member
This sounds fantastic. Any other info?
geem
Well-Known Member
It also has a "glass bottom" panel. You can just see it on the photo with a black rubber pad over the Perspex to protective from scratches. It's good for checking the anchor or sussing out an anchorage as to what the bottom is like or just watching fish go by
Using a hard dinghy like this compared to a rib is a different world. It has pros and cons but would be very hard to go back to a rib after this hard dinghy. It has far more carry capacity than a rib with the same size engine due to the long waterline and lack of drag. When you accelerate there is no hump to climb over Ike a rib so gets on the plane super fast. You can cruise at low speed compared to a rib which is either on the plane of off. This doesn't have that distinction. You just pick your speed.
Attachments
I've just been given a gunter rigged dinghy, I suspect the gunter rig is used because the spars fit in the dinghy for storage, but at least it's a new (to me) type to learn.
I have also learned a lot from this thread, thanks to all contributors.
I have also learned a lot from this thread, thanks to all contributors.
lw395
Well-Known Member
Maybe you've never seen a Mirror sailed properly?
Although they're old hat now, some people still race them quite seriously.
While rowing is quicker on flat water in a sheltered harbour, would we be thinking of rigging a sailing tender for that?
Where I'd use a sailing tender is when I've got a fair distance to go, maybe like when I had a mile and a half to go up Portmouth Harbour, ir when you're moored well away from the town in Salcombe, or anchored off somewhere.
Rowing from where the Egremont used to be up to Salcombe town against a force 4 and chop would not be my idea of a holiday. I'd be getting the motor out. Sails that worked well might be a fun alternative.
And it might be drier than the inflatable?
Romeo
Well-Known Member
Oh dear. I have owned Mirrors, but obviously I can't be as good at sailing them as you. Great boats, but I think not as good a compromise as a sailing tender as some other boats. Partly because they need stays to support the rig, and partly because they don't row well. And with a bit of experience (and with a reasonably cut sail) I expect you could get to the stage where you would be happy enough to sail a boat with a lug rig for a mile and a half up Portsmouth harbour.
lw395
Well-Known Member
I haven't sailed a Mirror since about 1971.
I sail much faster dinghies which would be rubbish as tenders!
I'd agree they are not the greatest tender, they are simply a benchmark for how a fairly low-tech boat of that size can perform under sail. I was looking at putting a vaguely similar rig on a slightly bigger stem dinghy at one point. It's not the ideal rig, but you can drop the mast at sea and stow all the spars in the boat while it's on a mooring, so not the worst either. The stays wouldn't get in the way much.
I think the gunter rig has the advantage of removing weight aloft, with only a short mast left up, a dinghy might be stable enough on a mooring when a bermudan mast would make it unstable. Being able to drop the mast is clearly a good idea if you're going to leave it anywhere at all exposed.
If I was going to spend actual money or effort on a sailing tender, I'd expect it to outperform the Mirror in several ways, but they could be worth a look at the price. Be aware that 'modern' racing Mirrors are bermudan rig though, with a one piece alloy mast. I don't think it was a huge performance boost though.