Sailing Salcombe to Guernsey - First timer advice please

[Carl s]

Blimey all this talk of being swept on to reefs and half tide rocks is enough too scare the s. T. Out of any one the leading marks and lights are very good . Agree with above, if any doubt pull into Alderny for a night , leave slack water in swinge and carry fair tide to Russell , a couple of hours , or so , you will love it

 

[James_Calvert]

Blimey all this talk of being swept on to reefs and half tide rocks is enough too scare the s. T. Out of any one the leading marks and lights are very good . Agree with above, if any doubt pull into Alderny for a night , leave slack water in swinge and carry fair tide to Russell , a couple of hours , or so , you will love it

Certainly worth doing a passage plan for Alderney as well, in case a diversion is called for.

But in most circumstances, it would be no closer or easier than pressing onto Guernsey.

Also worth planning the Little Russell approach for St Peter Port as well as via Les Hanois and St Martins Pt.

I think a lot of the worry about first passages to the CIs stems from stories predating electronic navigation when it was relatively easy in poor visibility to mistake one mark for another and so end up on the rocks. Now, providing you identify a safe route and most importantly stay safely on track, you won't come to grief.

 

[lw395]

From the Solent maybe, but from Salcombe, Braye is much the same distance as St Peter Port surely?

It is easy to enter at any time of tide though.
From Salcombe maybe go to Weymouth first?
I've often liked making the first leg of a cruise not too demanding, as somehow leaving on time gets stressful.
For the kind of person who's asking on here (and more so for their crew?), the CI's tides are not trivial, so cutting out the uncertainty might help.
I've done a few channel crossings where the passage plan involves arriving at point x at time y, resulting in an unnecessarily dull crossing using the motor.
From Salcombe, is it in fact easier to go to France first, then hop to CI's?

You're probably right about the distances, don't have the chart at my desk.
Good point raised about TSS.

 

[jac]

It is easy to enter at any time of tide though.
From Salcombe maybe go to Weymouth first?
I've often liked making the first leg of a cruise not too demanding, as somehow leaving on time gets stressful.
For the kind of person who's asking on here (and more so for their crew?), the CI's tides are not trivial, so cutting out the uncertainty might help.
I've done a few channel crossings where the passage plan involves arriving at point x at time y, resulting in an unnecessarily dull crossing using the motor.
From Salcombe, is it in fact easier to go to France first, then hop to CI's?

You're probably right about the distances, don't have the chart at my desk.
Good point raised about TSS.

That does add in the challenge of timing your passage round Portland Bill to get to Weymouth. Going somewhere with unrestricted departure times such as Dartmouth, Brixham or Torquay might make sense though if salcombe departure window doesn't suit.

 

[James_Calvert]

I've often liked making the first leg of a cruise not too demanding, as somehow leaving on time gets stressful.
For the kind of person who's asking on here (and more so for their crew?), the CI's tides are not trivial, so cutting out the uncertainty might help.
....
From Salcombe, is it in fact easier to go to France first, then hop to CI's?

Salcombe to Dartmouth would work as a short shakedown leg, it doesn't alter the distances much, but might give a little more flexibility on departure time for the main passage.

From Salcombe the distances to N Brittany ports are much the same between Roscoff and Treguier at about 90 to 95 miles. Lezardrieux and further into the bay of St Malo are 100+.

We've often gone for Trebeurden for our first leg, but that's 19 hours at a planned 5 knots. Often manage a few hours quicker but ...

St Peter Port is 75 from Salcombe, 71 from Dartmouth.

Distances as quoted in Reeds.

 

[doug748]

The OP asked for advice on a trouble free, short first time passage.

Great, it is a handy, daytime trip, with no restrictions and with a clear, well marked, deep water destination. There is little to bump into, a simple leg right to the doorstep. The final approach to port is wide open and easy.


First we have a suggestion to go overnight.

Then someone says; why not the Little Russel?

Then we hear that Alderney might be a useful stopover.

Then why not start from Weymouth?

Then actually it would be a good idea to go to France first.


You have to smile; sometimes I think we tend to chat among ourselves. The OP seems to have gone.

 

[picardy]

Dear all

Your comments are extremely helpful and I have enjoyed reading them. The idea of going via Weymouth does not appeal but via Dartmouth does. Your comments about best ways to approach and passage plans are also very useful.

Thank you all very much for taking the time to write

Regards

 

[makingplansfor]

This was my first channel crossing too. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that if you take the southern route you can get straight into the marina, whilst arriving via Little Russell you are likely to have to wait a tide to get in. That said, it is far more important to choose your route so you arrive in daylight whatever that may be. Good luck.

 

[Gwylan]

I am planning a trip from Salcombe / Dartmouth to Channel islands this summer in my 34ft sailing yacht.
Can anyone suggest a principle points to consider in relation to arrival times and states of the tide or indeed where to aim for first - I was thinking of Guernsey. I expect to average a speed of around 5 knots.

I will of course buy appropriate charts, pilotage guides etc and am relatively experienced and have plotter, VHF etc.

Thanks

Did it twice last year - once was the trip from hell the other was sheer delight. But that's sailing.

We tend to go for the northern approach. Do your sums and arrange to arrive in time for the tide to take you to St P P. Better to arrive there in daylight. That might mean leaving Salcombe early afternoon and overnighting it or a very early start to get there in daylight.

Either way it does depend on the tide at St P P.

In my experience the HM team are very good at organising boats and demonstrate commendable patience with some of the nobs [ usually foreign, but not exclusively] who think they drive past all the boats waiting on the pontoons.

Great place, good start to seeing that part of the world.

 

[Gwylan]

This was my first channel crossing too. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that if you take the southern route you can get straight into the marina, whilst arriving via Little Russell you are likely to have to wait a tide to get in. That said, it is far more important to choose your route so you arrive in daylight whatever that may be. Good luck.

From the north you usually should arrive before the harbour is open anyway, but not wait a whole tide. Then again depends on the speed of your boat.

 

[Laysula]

We did it last year leaving Brixham early morning and stopping at Braye for a couple of nights then on to St Peterport for another couple of nights and then St Helier followed by St Caste and St Malo the returning Via Jersey and Guernsey. Harbour staff were great at all ports, well organised and helpfull.

 

[KAL]

The outer pontoons are now connected ashore (apart from the most N one) so no need to even blow up the dinghy.

Just out of interest, why are most recommending the S route into SPP? I've done it but still much prefer the Little Russel, more direct from Salcombe and a good push if you hit it after HW +3.

We've been both ways (but from Dartmouth) and much prefer the southern route, because you avoid having to cross the TSS and thus can maintain your course straight to a waypoint off Hanois. The northern option sometimes means being swept into the TSS and having to alter course for an hour in order to cross first the W bound lane, then again an hour later, for another hour, in order to cross the E bound lane.

Getting to Hanois to meet the E going tide which then carries you to St Martins and up the little Russell is far more pleasant.

to the OP; have a great trip. If you pick a spell of clear weather its a delightful crossing either by day or night. If you're not sure about the night, just leave at dawn, but in the height of summer there's not much night! Last two times we hardly saw another vessel and that was in late July in beautiful weather.

 

[bryeomans]

If you work the passage on neaps cannot see the problem in making passage up/down the Little Russel in good visibility and in daylight. It is a shorter trip 70nm vs 76nm via Les Hanois. With our 34ft boat we usually average 6knots, but with the SE course from Salcombe we have averaged 7knots on a tight reach with Westerlies. In mid May, departures just before dawn from Salcombe gives you an hour or so of inshore sailing in gathering light before picking up the morning forecast and committing to the passage. Less than 12 hours later you should be at or near the top of the Russell and looking for Platte Fougere lighthouse. Good plan is to work out beforehand clearing bearings/permissible XTE for the leg down the Russel. If you have required conservative track/waypoints in the plotter and stick to them like glue until south of Brehon Tower at least, this helps it all happen without fuss. Be aware of ferry/condor in the Russel and harbour controls ( red light on pier head really means no entry due to tight manoeuvring space for ferries). There are now walk ashore summer pontoons in the Harbour, so no urgency over getting into marina

Other tips - we usually put a mid Channel waypoint clear of the SW corner of the Casquets TSS and passage plan to that. Carefully check what rhumbline course is required to make that waypoint from Salcombe , and then what track you can expect to make over the ground using the calculated course to steer. This should give you an idea if your course would take you through the scheme or not. You can then adjust the offset of the waypoint to make sure that you do not have any conflicts with TSS ( or to improve your passage time). A second waypoint off Platte Fougere will position you nicely for the very short hop down the Russel. If you arrive at Platte with tide about to go away down the Russel, this gives you a lift into the waypoint from Casquets TSS, slacker but fair tides for the Russel and much better sea state if winds are westerly. You also should have a good height of tide so plenty of water over most of the rocks. Easterly winds are a different proposition and if there is any strength in them(F5 plus) you will have uncomfortable conditions between Casquets and Platte or between Les Hanois and St Martins ( if you choose to go south about round Guernsey) in combination with an upwind beat - not nice.

For info a typical departure from Salcombe Bar at 0400 BST on 20 May 2014, would have had you in St Peter Port at 1800BST at 5knots or 1600BST at 6 knots according to my nav software. Departure times on that day come out as pretty much non-critical for tides with less than 60 minutes spread on passage duration for any morning departure, but it could cost you 30 minutes if you had left after 0500BST! If you have the facility, running multiple passage plans is really useful as it gives you a quick way of preplanning your cruise departure dates and how much flexibility youmight have if weather is looking uncertain.

Finally, I would definitely recommend AIS especially if you can watch targets on your plotter; the mid Channel antics of ships and AIS equipped fishing boats in the area West of the Casquets scheme have to be seen to be believed.. Ships are often entering the TSS (southern) eastbound lane from the North having rounded Lands End and then have to cross those leaving the northern (westbound) lane heading for Ushant so lots of interesting VHF exchanges! Fishing boats can also be a nightmare but are much easier to assess in daylight when you can get more idea of what they are up to with nets or pots.

In broad terms,

Plan for daylight passage at neaps in moderate wind state
Pre plan the details down the Russel
Be aware of wind over tide around Guernsey, especially in Easterlies
Use software - if you have it- to assess possible timings in advance.
Use AIS to monitor ships for Closest Points of Approach(CPA) and time to CPA
Be aware that in this area ships do not necessarily proceed in straight lines along a current track once they clear the TSS!

Enjoy the trip!

 

[Seajet]

I've done Salcombe to St Peter Port a few times.

Direct, the Little Russel is fine - really, you can't tell it from the Channel except in calms when it's a line of popple at the northern entrance - so no buggering about round Hanois and coming the other way.

The way the tides work, You'll have to wait in the outer harbour before getting into the marina but that's no hardship; I remember going ashore from there to post the Customs form, met a fellow club boat and got back to mine a befuddled 5 hours later

On the way back, a Top Tip if the electronics fail, on a clear day the clouds form over Salcombe mirroring the peninsula and inlet below, accurately enough to steer to.

 

[doug748]

Dear all

Your comments are extremely helpful and I have enjoyed reading them. The idea of going via Weymouth does not appeal but via Dartmouth does. Your comments about best ways to approach and passage plans are also very useful.

Thank you all very much for taking the time to write

Regards

How did you get on Picardy? Bin yet. or still in planning? I am always a sucker for hearing how things turned out.