Sailing from Glasgow to France

[Junkfan Pat]

Hello fellow sailors.
I hope this new thread is not misplaced in this forum.
I am planning a sail from Glasgow to Bordeaux (France) and I need as many advices as I can get for sailing the Irish Sea in august 2021, more or less.
Planned stops are as follows:
Glasgow
Largs
Girvan
Carrickfergus
Peel (Isle of Man)
Holyhead
Porth Dinllaen
Fishguard
Milford Haven
Ilfracombe
Penzance
(cross the Channel)
Lanildut (France)
I attach an image of the planned route:

Mayday everybody, if you have similar experience, tips to share, advices, on whichever leg/ aspect of the trip.
Ship is a junk rigged schooner, 2 masts, 1,50 meters draft, and I have never sailed the Irish sea, nor Saint Georges Canal, Bristol Canal or the channel.
In advance, thanks to you all.
Fair winds, Patrick

 

[SaltIre]

Welcome to the forum. Girvan seems an unusual stop. Why not do Glasgow to Troon instead of both Largs & Girvan?

 

[TernVI]

Looks like an exercise in going around the maximum number of headlands against the prevailing wind.
Many of those legs need careful tidal planning.
If you have adequate crew, it might be easier to sail longer legs according to the weather.
What is you priority, to see some nice places and coastline or to reach your destination fairly quickly?

 

[mrangry]

I recently sailed from Barmouth to the Clyde. We had to stop off in Holyhead for three nights due to high winds. We sailed through the night from Holyhead to Ardrossan and slightly underestimated the strength of the tide in the North Chanel, we were going backwards at one point against a foul tide. I can recommend Holyhead marina for facilities and price, however check in advance as their is little in the way of pontoons due to previous storm damage.

 

[awol]

My preference would be for the Irish coast (unless there are easterlies) but Brexit may screw that up. 9 days to get to the bottom of your chart seems excessive but that's your choice.

 

[Quandary]

Most people here would go down the Irish coast, less exposed, less complex tides and better harbours (the latter subject to the Covid restrictions of course.)
Lamlash Largs or Campbeltown , Bangor, Howth or Dun Laoghaire, then a choice of harbours on the way to the Scillys. Main argument is that with the prevailing westerlies you are mostly in the shelter of the land with flat water and loads of room to leeward. I think you will find the distance is shorter too. It is an awful dreary drag from Glasgow to the Mull of Galloway, watching Aisa Craig failing to move past for hours. The only reason to stop between Glasgow and Bangor is to wait the tides, going via C'town you get a great push down the N. Channel about 5hrs in a small yacht.

 

[seafox67]

Most people here would go down the Irish coast, less exposed, less complex tides and better harbours (the latter subject to the Covid restrictions of course.)
Lamlash Largs or Campbeltown , Bangor, Howth or Dun Laoghaire, then a choice of harbours on the way to the Scillys. Main argument is that with the prevailing westerlies you are mostly in the shelter of the land with flat water and loads of room to leeward. I think you will find the distance is shorter too. It is an awful dreary drag from Glasgow to the Mull of Galloway, watching Aisa Craig failing to move past for hours. The only reason to stop between Glasgow and Bangor is to wait the tides, going via C'town you get a great push down the N. Channel about 5hrs in a small yacht.

I'm thinking of taking my 31ft bilge keel down to the English south coast for the summer next year...
I was going to do a similar route as Junkfan Pat because I'm singlehanded and didn't want any potential hassle with the Irish customs and my dog!

Is the Irish coast doable for daylight hours only sailing(even with the engine on! lol)

 

[john_morris_uk]

I'm thinking of taking my 31ft bilge keel down to the English south coast for the summer next year...
I was going to do a similar route as Junkfan Pat because I'm singlehanded and didn't want any potential hassle with the Irish customs and my dog!

Is the Irish coast doable for daylight hours only sailing(even with the engine on! lol)

Why daylight only? Sailing by night isn't half as scary as people think it is. You also eat up the miles when you sail round the clock. I've done Lands end to Troon is a day and half or two without breaking a sweat.

Although I appreciate that the Irish coast is appealing for all the reasons given, the detour to Belfast ads lots of miles and Portpatrick is a possible stop. Also think Ilfarcombe is adding LOTS of miles. My wife and I did Milford Haven to the Scillies two up one year.

 

[Junkfan Pat]

Hi folks.
Many thanks to all of you for the numerous advices. I will carefully examine them and think everything over accordingly, trying different routes, maybe longer legs with more night sailing (as per John_morris_uk), which I personally enjoy.
I'm not singlehanded, but my wife will be my only crew... She is not yet confident enough to hold the helm at night if I'm not on deck. Therefore the many stops.
But I will reconsider once I study new routes, for example down the Irish coast. I wonder what kind of trouble brexxit could cause for a sailor seeking shelter for a night.
I'll later answer each one of you individually.
And I will keep this forum informed of my plans developments.
Meanwhile feel free to add comments. Thanks again,
Patrick

 

[john_morris_uk]

Interesting. I wouldn’t dream of sailing that distance two up without a good and reliable autopilot. That means Mrs M takes over as watchkeeper and lookout while I catch some sleep and the boat steers itself. . AIS helps collision avoidance as Mrs M checks the CPA and rarely needs to call me for a second opinion.

The trick (of course) is to never EVER complain at being called from your sleep.

 

[dunedin]

Another vote for the Irish coast route - and generally more sheltered in prevailing SW winds.
With the Common Travel Area Agreement with Ireland there should be no issues going into the Irish ports en route south post Brexit. Big issue currently is Covid-19 but must live in hope that will be better next year.
If U.K. citizen will need to be aware of 90/180 day Schengen rules when in France (or any other Schengen country), and if boat in U.K. on 31/12/20 the boat will be subject to Temporary Importation rules (generally max stay 18 months in EU for boat) to avoid being liable for VAT.
More importantly, definitely get a good autopilot for the trip.

 

[seafox67]

Why daylight only? Sailing by night isn't half as scary as people think it is. You also eat up the miles when you sail round the clock. I've done Lands end to Troon is a day and half or two without breaking a sweat.

Although I appreciate that the Irish coast is appealing for all the reasons given, the detour to Belfast ads lots of miles and Portpatrick is a possible stop. Also think Ilfarcombe is adding LOTS of miles. My wife and I did Milford Haven to the Scillies two up one year.

Not so much being scared... more about reducing risks (mainly lobster pots) that I can avoid! With the situation this virus has caused, I will have the whole year to sail! I've never sailed beyond the Clyde and west coast of Scotland so I feel it would be more fun to just take my time, pick my weather windows and tides. Although Milford Haven to Scillies is sounding a great challenge for me! Could be possible with a plenty supply of coffee! lol

 

[Sandy]

Hello Patrick

Welcome to the forum.

I'm planning to do Largs, with a trip to Nardini's, down to the Isles of Scilly before turning the corner and heading for Plymouth (weather allowing) in one hop next summer. I am not sure I'd detour to Ilfracombe as you adding a lot of miles on that section and it mainly dries out. Lundy gives shelter in a blow and has a pub, but the Trip Advisor reviews for 2020 are almost as bad as the Old Forge at Inverie.

Make sure you gen up on the checking into France post Brexit and hopefully we won't need to wait for 14 days quarantine before being getting off the boat for a visit to the bakery and some decent French coffee from the tabac.

 

[mrangry]

Not so much being scared... more about reducing risks (mainly lobster pots) that I can avoid! With the situation this virus has caused, I will have the whole year to sail! I've never sailed beyond the Clyde and west coast of Scotland so I feel it would be more fun to just take my time, pick my weather windows and tides. Although Milford Haven to Scillies is sounding a great challenge for me! Could be possible with a plenty supply of coffee! lol

Like you, all my sailing had been on the Clyde and west coast prior to my recent trip from Wales. We are spoiled up here with deep water in most places. I was 25 miles offshore in Cardigan bay and showing under 10 metres depth in places with skerries drying out too.

 

[SaltIre]

Patrick,
I think from your chart in #1 you might be French. Am I correct? If so, is your yacht UK or French registered? Would it make a difference to your Brexit considerations?

 

[zoidberg]

Welcome, Patrick

I've routed that way over a number of years, in several boats, and I'd recommend you take the easier route - easier on the boat and on the crew. Several others are suggesting the same - avoid the Welsh dead-lee headlands, miss out Ilfracombe, keep off the Cornish coast by a sound margin.

I'd suggest routing round the north of Arran down to Campbeltown; past Sanda's anchorage and from there to Bangor with the tide under you, passing Larne as alternate; then Ardglass; passing Portavogie; then Howth; then down inside the banks, with the tide, to Arklow; Rosslare next, with 'some pontoons' in the back corner; then Milford/Dale, clearing south of the TSSs; from Milford I'd head for the Lands End/Scillies gap, but ducking into Padstow if weather and preference decide. Newlyn next - but I'd be very happy to go into the 'magical' Scillies instead, from the north, by one of several routes. That's very well positioned for your jump across the western end of the Channel and a landfall at Le Four Light for the Chenal de la Four and points south.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Welcome, Patrick

I've routed that way over a number of years, in several boats, and I'd recommend you take the easier route - easier on the boat and on the crew. Several others are suggesting the same - avoid the Welsh dead-lee headlands, miss out Ilfracombe, keep off the Cornish coast by a sound margin.

I'd suggest routing round the north of Arran down to Campbeltown; past Sanda's anchorage and from there to Bangor with the tide under you, passing Larne as alternate; then Ardglass; passing Portavogie; then Howth; then down inside the banks, with the tide, to Arklow; Rosslare next, with 'some pontoons' in the back corner; then Milford/Dale, clearing south of the TSSs; from Milford I'd head for the Lands End/Scillies gap, but ducking into Padstow if weather and preference decide. Newlyn next - but I'd be very happy to go into the 'magical' Scillies instead, from the north, by one of several routes. That's very well positioned for your jump across the western end of the Channel and a landfall at Le Four Light for the Chenal de la Four and points south.

I’ve no argument with much of that. All sound advice and the only caveat I have is that it all depends on the weather systems coming through. I’ve sailed the entire Lands End northwards route in North Easterlies that lasted an entire week and I’ve motored the route in conditions alternating between flat calm and 5 knots of wind.

If I’d made enough westing to get to the Scillies, and my destination was S Brittany, I’d be very reluctant to lose mileage Eastwards for the fleshpots of Newlyn. Besides which Penzance is only a mile away and is more accommodating to yachts and offers perfect shelter if you lock in. (Not sure why we’re even considering these things as you can find shelter from wind in any direction in the Scillies. )

Psychologically, the big leap is setting out from Ireland or Milford Haven across to Lands End. It’s a big bit of water if you’ve only ever sailed within sight of land.

 

[Junkfan Pat]

Patrick,
I think from your chart in #1 you might be French. Am I correct? If so, is your yacht UK or French registered? Would it make a difference to your Brexit considerations?

SaltIre, my boat, which is not yet but hopefully will be mine in 2021, is and will remain Part one British Registered, which is full British Registration.
And Yes, I am french... nobody is perfect !

 

[awol]

And Yes, I am french... nobody is perfect !

Well, that solves the Brexit problem, at least!

 

[Quandary]

In August up here you still have 17 hours of daylight each day, some nights it never gets dark at all. The tidal flows are a much more controlling factor but as they tend to get later if going with them untilyou get to the IoM. you can have 7-8 hours before you have to deal with anything more than a knot or so. The days get shorter as you go south but your experience will have improved greatly by then. If your boat is junk rigged coming from the west with the wind behind you might be better than beating round the headlands.