Sailing dinghies left on moorings, excluding Wayf & Wanderers

[prv]

Is the Wayfarer as much tougher than the others, as its greater weight suggests?

Well, we once rammed a moored one at full speed in a Dart catamaran (helm got the end of the tiller extension jammed in the clew of the mainsail and couldn't steer round it). The front of the Dart hull imploded almost as far back as the main beam (fortunately Sunsail don't charge you extra for breaking their stuff!) but there was not a scratch visible on the Wayfarer.

I'd call that fairly tough.

Pete

 

[Seajet]

Dan,

yes the Osprey in that clip is near identical to Verns'.

I see either he's got satcom fitted or is wisely using a masthead float; that would be necessary if you put her over singlehanded, but for such a fast boat they are incredibly stable.

My wooden MkII no. 902 was single floor ( as is Verns' grp I'm sure ) and seemed fine, I don't think moving the thwart for sleeping is a great idea or necessary, but it would require setting the boat up to make it possible, ie no contol lines in the way.

Of all your ideas I still think the Osprey - a MkII with stern deck - is your best.

Pete,

I'm not so sure about your method of testing Wayfarers; I had a Dart 18, when selling it the new owner put a hull down on a brick - put down, not dropped - and it went straight through !

If you really want a brick outhouse, try a Bosun.

 

[Achillesheel]

A bit of an aside, but I used to race against Wayfarer No 1. This was about ten years ago. It was immaculate, inside and out, and was still winning races.

 

[Seajet]

A chum had no.28 which I crewed once, also in lovely condition; hope she is being cared for.

 

[lw395]

It interests me that the Wayfarer (170kg?) is always described as appallingly, unmanageably heavy ashore, while in the case of other big dinghies like the Osprey (140kg?) and 505 (127kg?) a not-much-lesser burden isn't described as anything like the same amount of trouble.

Is the Wayfarer as much tougher than the others, as its greater weight suggests?

The 505 weight is complete boat less sails.
The Wayf's 167kg is, I believe, the bare hull, i.e less mast, sails, centreboard, rudder, string, etc etc.
Also a lot of GRP wayfarers were built to training spec, i.e. heavier still.

To put it in perspective, the RS400, as a mass produced dinghy designed in the 90's has a hull weight of 88kg, and a sailing weight of 129 kg, which I think includes sails.
A lot of 'serious' dinghies are lighter.

The wayfarer is manageable for two reasonably fit average size blokes on a good, clean slip way, if the trolley is good. It's a lump on soft or rough or steep stuff.
An Osprey would be regarded as a fairly heavy boat, but AFAIK, the cast majority were built for racing, so should have been close to min weight when new.

 

[Penton Hooker]

You weren't there, spring 1983, I s'pose?

75/76/77

 

[Kelpie]

Dan
what do you actually want/need to do with the boat?

If you want to drag it up a beach singlehanded, without a trolley, then you need a topper or laser.

If you want to drag it up a beach doublehanded, without a trolley, then maybe up to the weight of an Ent?

If you want a boat that will safely handle rougher conditions, you want something fairly substantial. And if you are singlehanding, you might as well admit that you are not going to drag it up the beach. So stop worrying about the weight.... and buy a Wayfarer.

Also, it's not a crime to own more than one boat! We have a yacht for cruising, a Wayfarer for long day sails, and a Graduate for frightening ourselves and coming home with a grin like a Cheshire cat.

(But if I *had* to own only one boat, it would be the Wayfarer, without a moment's thought.)

 

[Fantasie 19]

Dan
what do you actually want/need to do with the boat?

If you want to drag it up a beach singlehanded, without a trolley, then you need a topper or laser.

If you want to drag it up a beach doublehanded, without a trolley, then maybe up to the weight of an Ent?

If you want a boat that will safely handle rougher conditions, you want something fairly substantial. And if you are singlehanding, you might as well admit that you are not going to drag it up the beach. So stop worrying about the weight.... and buy a Wayfarer.

Also, it's not a crime to own more than one boat! We have a yacht for cruising, a Wayfarer for long day sails, and a Graduate for frightening ourselves and coming home with a grin like a Cheshire cat.

(But if I *had* to own only one boat, it would be the Wayfarer, without a moment's thought.)

I learnt to sail in them so I do have a soft spot for them... certainly solid/seaworthy, wasn't one supposed to have done the North Sea Scotland to Norway??

I agree the previous comment re. trailer and slip though - our sailing club has a slip that is somewhat akin to an ice rink tipped to 45' and the one time I tried it, it was a little bit like launching the lifeboat...

Spacious cockpit though.....

I'd also put in a vote for the Bosun which in the old days (when you were allowed to) I used to sail solo in Portsmouth Harbour from HMS Dolphin (my dad was navy).... very stable, very well built (as you'd expect for MoD spec!) and not slow.....

 

[Kelpie]

I learnt to sail in them so I do have a soft spot for them... certainly solid/seaworthy, wasn't one supposed to have done the North Sea Scotland to Norway??

Yup, Franke Dye did some pretty impressive trips.
His honeymoon was a trip to St Kilda, during which his wife became so seasick that she fainted and then fell out of the boat (they remained happily married, amazingly).

He also sailed from Kinlochbervie to Iceland, in 1966. No radio transmitter, and his receiver packed up pretty quickly IIRC, leaving him without weather forecasts. Upon closing the coast had to head back out to sea to weather a gale. In total the trip took 11 days. He said afterwards "cruising in a small open boat can be done, but after ten days it ceases to be fun and becomes hard work."

A year or two later, he set of again from Kinlochbervie, and went to Faroe, then across the North Sea to Norway. That was the trip on which they were hit by a F9 and the boat was rolled and dismasted. They made it to Norway under jury rig.

 

[BrianH]

I learnt to sail in them so I do have a soft spot for them... certainly solid/seaworthy, wasn't one supposed to have done the North Sea Scotland to Norway??

Frank Dye, the legendary hero of all Wayfarer owners. I once organised a showing of the film of his North Sea crossing to Norway in my club, which is still imprinted in my brain. Filming on board stopped at about the time he and his crew, after taking down all sail and streaming warps in a force 9 gale, took down the mast. It resumed after they had suffered multiple capsizes, righted and resumed sailing under a jury rig.

From his obituary in the Telegraph:

"Dye made his most famous voyages in the early Sixties. During his 11-day, 650-mile North Atlantic crossing from Scotland to Iceland, armed with just a compass and sextant for navigation and with a makeshift cockpit tent for shelter, he and his one-man crew, Russell Brockbank, endured seasickness, sodden clothing, Force 8 gales, freezing temperatures and broken rigging before they made landfall on the Icelandic island of Heimay.

On his second major sea passage, a Norwegian Sea crossing from Scotland to Aalesund, Norway, Dye and his crew, Bill Brockbank (no relation to Russell), narrowly survived four capsizes and a broken mast during a Force 9 storm. In Ocean–Crossing Wayfarer (1977), written with his wife Margaret, Dye recalled the scene: "It was impossible to look into the wind. It was screaming and the tops of the waves were blown completely away, feeling like hail. Within our limited vision the whole sea seemed to be smoking. Just to see such seas break away on the beam was frightening – 25ft of solid water, with another 12ft of overhanging crest above it. It was only a matter of time before we got one aboard." ​

 

[Blueboatman]

OK A bit left field and possibly Saga territory but what about a West Wight Scow (or one of the local variants)?
They are stiff, heavy and are left afloat a lot.
They have a decked bow ( so possible stowage under incl space for a wee o/board), sailed from ages 8 to 88 in a fair old weather range too and in 'Solent chop'. Heavy steel board hinging in a case, simple agile rig..grp mostly, some older clinker ones..
And win hands down on the pretty factor..sorry no pic

 

[Penton Hooker]

West Wight Scow:
http://www.cvrda.org/dinghydata/WestWight.htm
Great fun!

 

[Blueboatman]

Aha, ta

 

[Greenheart]

The Scow certainly is a pretty one; but a tad petite perhaps, for my loony ambitions?

Rob, I know you talk good sense, reminding me of the Wayfarer's comprehensive suitability to relaxed cruising. Very likely it combines stability and enough useful, non-fitful, passagemaking performance to make me wonder why I ever dreamed of speedier birds.

So many are for sale on Apollo Duck, I bet that when I have the cash in my hand and a car with a tow-hitch, I'll one day soon make the call, spend 7 hours driving to somewhere like Chew Valley or Kielder Water, then return with a Wayf and a big grin.

But, my heart sees Osprey pics and says "look at that flighty bit of magnificence!"...and the brain pictures how some intelligent modification might make her the ultimate hybrid - performance, practical useability, elegance, seaworthiness and sheer size...

...so it remains tempting to get one, rather than be told by the voices of reason and commonsense, that it's not ideal. Like others before me, ultimately I may only learn by getting it wrong.

I'm really enjoying the suggestions and recollections, though.

 

[Sailfree]

Also, it's not a crime to own more than one boat! We have a yacht for cruising, a Wayfarer for long day sails, and a Graduate for frightening ourselves and coming home with a grin like a Cheshire cat.

(But if I *had* to own only one boat, it would be the Wayfarer, without a moment's thought.)

+1

We have the jeanneau 43 deck Saloon for Cruising and a wayfarer for racing. I would remind anyone going to boat shows to look seriously at a Mk4 Wayfarer. It faster (now can plane upwind) more buoyant (now licenced for 6 x 70Kg people, more seaworthy (has transom flaps in addition to self bailers) yet still retains the sea kindly shape of the original wayfarer. The shape is tweaked slightly to ensure IMHO its faster that the fastest wooden wayfarer but a good helm in W 88 ( a 60 yrs old wooden boat) regularly wins races at the national etc!

SWMBO helms the Wayfarer racing and prefers sailing it to the 43' Jeanneau. What amazes me is that she has been prepared to go out and race the Wayfarer in worse conditions that she is happy going out in the yacht! Last year at Poole wk we had 2 races in the bay with 34kts winds and were constantly shipping water over the sides!! At our weights we were seriously overpowered but completed the races frequently feathering the sails and with a big grin on our faces.

 

[Sailfree]

(* the guy I sold it to is a SI, so the old MkI is comfortably beating all of the other Wayfarers in the fleet... including me in my much newer World...)

There was a GRP Mk 1 about 4000 hull no we used to regularly race against during Falmouth Week. It was a good Husband (helm) and wife (crew) team and they regularly won races.

On close inspection we found the underside had deformed slightly with age which we all concluded got it planning faster. As alway the Helm was also good!!

There are lots of good secondhand Wayfarers available as the new Mk 4 is slightly faster and all the competitive racers are buying the new Mk 4. In our case so that we know when we don't get a good result its us that is c**p - can't blame the boat!! I sold W8619 one of the last Porter built wooden wayfarers (now some 30yrs old?) to buy this new one.

The advantage of a big class is plenty of spares and advice available. If you are willing to put the work in and maintain a wooden one it is a very rewarding boat to own and I have seen many that look like a highly polished piece of furniture.

I thought about a RS 400 but the cost of spares as they are only allowed from the authorised distributors put me off.

 

[Greenheart]

Hullo chaps. Not speculating about what I'll be sailing soon...I admit to being undecided there, though I'm smitten by certain designs, nameless for the moment, I hope you understand...I'm just talking dinghy sails with you gents, who evidently know plenty about them...

...I think it was earlier in this thread, the similarity between the Albacore and Firefly's mainsails came up, other than in size...

...and I considered whether, aside from the Alb's inflexible lower mast (and hence its inability to bend, thus not spilling overpowering gusts) the Firefly's main might be set as a small main for an Alb, as one chap whose website I'd found, had demonstrated with photos...

...anyway, I'm curious how many other familiar designs are just bigger, or evolved versions of 'junior' dinghies? I found a quote last night which claimed that in most respects, the 505 is just a big 420. I wonder what any of you, who know both boats, think of that?

Beamy buggers, aren't they!

 

[Seajet]

Dan,

one thing which occurs to me is that something like a 420 ( or 470 ? ) main on a 505 might not work brilliantly as it's a wide boat with quite a lot of resistance, needs the power to an extent especially in waves, cruising.

The reduced rig idea might work best on a narrow, easily driven hull ?

As mentioned previously my chum has an Enterprise main and a proper but reefable main for his Osprey, if we ever get out to try them I'll take pics and report back.

 

[ArchieP]

Sailing is a lot more fun than just staying on a yacht without doing. Throughout history sailing has been instrumental in the development of civilization, affording humanity greater mobility than travel over land, whether for trade, transport or warfare, and the capacity for fishing.

 

[davidej]

...anyway, I'm curious how many other familiar designs are just bigger, or evolved versions of 'junior' dinghies? I found a quote last night which claimed that in most respects, the 505 is just a big 420. I wonder what any of you, who know both boats, think of that?

NO!

The 420 is a smaller 505